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  #25  
Old 01-17-2012, 03:31 AM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

If you pick up a cheap scan tool from harbor freight (side note... I saw an IDENTICAL one except the color being offered for something like double the cost off the cornwell) their top model showes live data and (unlike alot of cheapies) and pulls and clears codes. Obviously its not the best choice out there but for my money and how often it gets used it serves every purpose I have wanted it for. Plus when I got it I think I paid like 120 bucks with the extended warranty.

Ive never seen "open circuit" in the overhead console.

If you get the aforementioned scanner you can monitor via live data your rpm, if its not counting they you have a ckp problem... also how did you verify you had the 16t tone wheel? This is not an exact science but I have a hard time believing that a running vehicle had the motor taken out and replaced and now there is some module failure causing your problem... even just the CKP is half way difficult to believe. What did you do to deturmine you didnt have injectors or coils firing?
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:42 AM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

JGC, I'll pick up scanner this week good idea to just have one seeing that it works on multiple vehicles. I verified that it was a 16t motor because it came off another 2000 WJ that had been involved in a rear end collision. I watched as they pulled it from vehicle. Also motor does not have the additional knock sensor, like the HO. I wasn't getting fuel to the rail, verified by valve, no pressure or gas. Shot starter fluid down TB car would crank but not fire, assuming no spark, or would of at least attempted to start.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:12 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

Well thats a bit of a different story then, we need to figure out why you have no fuel pressure, and verify that you dont have spark. I know I have seen the regulator in the fuel filter assembly crap out causing low fuel pressure (not sure if your year has an external fuel filter or not) if it doesnt its going to be internal... If your not getting fuel pressure we really need to get some fuel to the injectors reguardless of it not trying with ether, really if you didn't have enough fuel pressure to start it could easily have all the cylinders washed out with too much fuel. And no fuel pressure is a known problem, eliminate them as you find them and then go from there.

Are you SURE there is fuel, the senders short out sometimes and tell you there is fuel when there is not.

Also noid lights are your friend, that will instantly tell you that your getting a crank signal when it blinks as it actuates the injector.

No fuel pressure is a very good reason for a no start with no dtc's as pressure is not monitored.
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:32 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

Fuel pump is not working for at least 3 seconds when putting ignition switch in run, so it seems that the PCM is not switching it. Maybe a good start to check for 12V on point 86 of the fuel pump relay or point 86 of the auto shutdown relay?
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:42 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

JGC, Fuel pump was working prior to engine swap. Like Frango said I should hear fuel pump coming on, and I'm not. This is getting frustrating!!!!!!! How else could I verify spark?
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:43 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

I'll try that but will need someone to turn ignition on while I put voltmeter on contacts, since pump only stays on for a few seconds. The other one sholudn't need anyone though right?
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:59 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

Something strange, pulled ASD relay to check for power, cranked engine but no reading, however smelled fuel and there was pressure in the rail. Also noticed one injector seemed to be leaking (clogged) maybe. Still no spark. Whats UP!
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:58 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

With ignition switch in run/start position, there should always be 12V on point 86. Its the PCM which will switch the ground for the fuel pump and auto shutdown relays .
Do you hear the fuel pump running now? (just open the fuel cap, because the noise level is quite low). If it runs, the 12V on point 86 is then ok.
If the pump runs for 3 secs, there is a good change that the crank sensor/connector is giving the problem, as 2005JGC mentioned before. The PCM will cut the ground to the injectors when it doesn't receive crank sensor signal. But without scanner, it is still shooting in the dark.
Did you see this engine running, before they took it out? (That should in fact take away the possibility of a problem with the crank sensor, or you should have a lot of bad luck)
With the Auto shutdown relay removed, all power to the coils and injectors is cut, so the only fuel you did smell is probably from the fuel leak. If one injector leaks, that is probably a problem with the O-ring. So now the question is, does the fuelpump run when the ASD relay is removed? (for 3 secs)
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2012, 06:08 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

I disconnected ASD relay and got fuel into rail, so I am getting fuel now but that was weird, happened when I disconnected ASD relay. Still not getting spark though, I'll wait to see when I get scanner this weekend. Still haven't checked crank sensor for connection problems. I think I might have inadvertently spray painted connection when I used the high heat paint on oil pan and block. Wouldn't that just be dandy if that were the problem. I'll get back with you in a couple days, Might of found a 2003 Grand for less than $1200 that needs engine supposedly, no start issue
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:08 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

Frank, Checked ASD relay again for power, Had power but not on Post 86 but on post 85 is that strange? Again got fuel going to rail now. Don't know if injectors are firing. Will get scanner this weekend and check computer for codes. seems like things are coming back on just slowly, but learning alot real fast. Thanks again.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:37 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

Frank, Think I might have figured it out but not sure where I went wrong. Getting power at relay from grounded side 85. Think I may have grounded a power wire. Figure it may be one of the three I grounded to block on Passenger side. I had all wires marked. This would explain alot. I'll recheck in morning. If this the case shame on me. Hopefully didn't fry PCM
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  #36  
Old 01-17-2012, 09:44 PM
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Re: Starting Problems 4.7

In my 2004 manual, the 12V is connected to point 86 (and ground switched by PCM via point 85), but when i look into the 2001-2004 manual, then the 12V is on point 85. Strange that they changed that at a certain point in time. So 12V on point 85 for your jeep is ok.
Do you hear the fuel pump running now as well? If yes, than the PCM is alive.
But did this now start after disconnecting the ASD relay?
Did you try to put an other, similar, relay in its place?
With the ASD relay in place, is the fuel pump still running (first 3 secs)?
The paint that you had applied could very well be the problem, still strange though that the fuel pump was also not running first.
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