Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WJ > Troubleshooting/Problems

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #13  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:48 AM
Frango100's Avatar
Premium Member

My Jeep: 2004 4.7L WJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brazil
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 526233
Frango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Just found an other diagram which shows all components connected to the PCI bus. Seems to be for 02/03 jeeps.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf PCI bus components.pdf (69.5 KB, 21 views)
__________________

__________________
Frank

JEEP Grand Cherokee 4.7 Lmtd 2004
HID 8000K in low and fog / Quad Squad member
KYB Gas-a-Just shocks / Pirelli Scorpion ATR 245/65/17 - Transgo reprogramming shiftkit.

VW Beetle 2.0 TSI 2013
My new toy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:51 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2003
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 704
Hybrids is on a distinguished road
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frango100 View Post
On the CRD the Selector Lever Sensor Assy (thats what jeep calls the gear selector lever assy) also has a connection with the PCI bus. If you disconnect this assy and the PCI bus returns, you have found your problem.
However the question is what the PCI bus voltage should be. Have a look at the threads from Father Theresias, who is struggling with PCI bus problems ( on a 4.0 however, but the bus principle is the same), where he mentioned that the bus voltage should be 7.5V. After some searching we found that there is a bus disconnect plug under the stearing wheel, however i wonder if the 2004 has it like this. This plug just has a shorting end cap, which connects all bus wires together. (see attached picture for location of the diagnostic junction port)
I think that the stealer should have a special tester which they can connect overthere to read each component separately, however still some components are connect together. This plug is shown on the 99/03 wiring diagrams, but i can´t find it on the 04 diagram anymore.
Thanks Frank

I had read previously ( can't find the info now) that pin 2 (CAN high) on the Diagnostic port should be 2.5v, I will check up and recheck the car next Saturday when I go back.

Thanks for the second diagram, I will print a copy and use that next week.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:54 PM
Frango100's Avatar
Premium Member

My Jeep: 2004 4.7L WJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brazil
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 526233
Frango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Here some more info which could help during the trouble shooting.
Grand Cherokee 2000 Electrical Problems - CNET Car Tech Forums
__________________
Frank

JEEP Grand Cherokee 4.7 Lmtd 2004
HID 8000K in low and fog / Quad Squad member
KYB Gas-a-Just shocks / Pirelli Scorpion ATR 245/65/17 - Transgo reprogramming shiftkit.

VW Beetle 2.0 TSI 2013
My new toy
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-21-2013, 03:47 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2003
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 704
Hybrids is on a distinguished road
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Small, yet unconclusive update...
Went back on Saturday and fitted a Cam Sensor, no different. Will only run if the selector plug is disconnected- ign. on - plug back in and then start.
What did come up though was 2 new fault codes (with the selector unplugged)

Cam Sensor - very strange as when the original one was fitted and left unplugged it flagged no code, now the new one plugged fitted and connected is flagging the code.

SKIM - Could be due to the gear selector plug being unplugged, as I believe it is part of the immobilisor circuit, but it has not come up last week when unplugged.

After some searching I have found a selector off a 2.7CRD.
They are quite rare and usually command £150 - £200 GBP used. I am still not convinced by the symptoms, I believe selector issues usually manifest themselves by limp mode or not starting (without the dash issues). Hopefully it will be here in a couple of days. I have brought the Jeep home (drove no issue, just no clocks, or heater etc) for now as I am away next couple of weekends and cant get to the garage, so I will be playing around with it at home of an evening

If the selector does not cure it, I will look at changing the engine loom.

I am still trying to find a definative answer on where the weak point usually is.

To be continued...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:42 AM
Frango100's Avatar
Premium Member

My Jeep: 2004 4.7L WJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brazil
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 526233
Frango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Did you errase the ECU memory first to see if both stored codes are hard ones, or just previously stored?
Seems that by disconnecting the SLSA the PCI bus comes back alive and the ECU gets the ok signal from the SKIM, whereafter the engine can be started.
You said that previously with the cam sensor disconnected you didn´t get a fault code, but was the ignition switch in run at that time?
__________________
Frank

JEEP Grand Cherokee 4.7 Lmtd 2004
HID 8000K in low and fog / Quad Squad member
KYB Gas-a-Just shocks / Pirelli Scorpion ATR 245/65/17 - Transgo reprogramming shiftkit.

VW Beetle 2.0 TSI 2013
My new toy
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:10 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2002 2.8L WJ
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 74
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 1653
Tony Norton is on a distinguished road
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Hi,

I too have been wrestling with a similar problem for about a year now.

The first time the EVIC went down (--- instead of figures) I was looking around and found that the water temperature sensor had a crack in its plastic connector. Replaced it, and all was O.K. That was Feb 2012.

When it went again, Nov 2012, I thought I knew the problem. Wrong! New sensor fitted but no change.

I can always reset my system by pulling the IOD fuse and replacing it, but how long it lasts is indeterminate. Mostly it lasts around 1 to 3 miles, but it was kind to me on Xmas day and lasted 10 miles.

The local stealership told me they could test the system but couldn't guarantee to find or fix the fault. A local privately owned garage said they would rather not get involved as the last Jeep they had in with a similar fault took them 3 months to sort, only being able to sort it when it went down permanently. A broken wire in a loom that was clamped both sides of the break so had no excuse for breaking! He did reckon though, that whatever was wrong it would not be an engine sensor fault (EGR, AFM or Lamda) taking down the BCM.

I'm getting so frustrated with it now that I'm thinking of printing a sticker for the rear window saying "Jeeps are c**p. Don't buy one!"

Wish I could be more help.

Tony N
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:58 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2003
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 704
Hybrids is on a distinguished road
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Cheers Frank, I have cleared the codes and they have come back. I did the (old) Cam Sensor with the ignition off and even unplugged it while running and it did not store a cam sensor code.

Tony - thanks for yor post, this reinforces my belief in a wiring issue.

I now have my s/h selector to try, but I (still) believe it is going to be a wiring issue. I have bought my wife a cheap car to run around in and that takes away some of the pressure to fix. I will get it in my garage at home and start looking at the loom closely in the next couple of weeks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:42 AM
Hacksaw's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 674
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 2024
Hacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond reputeHacksaw has a reputation beyond repute
I hate chasing wire faults...here's one for you... my dad was a mechanic for 45 years before retirement a few years before he retired he had a back injury so they turned him onto the electrical guy. One day a car (can't remember details but I think it was a Dodge) comes in with weird problems throwing codes for different sensors. Dad says replace computer,service manager says replace sensors one at a time until it goes away. After all sensors replaced its still throwing codes...service manager says replace computer. Replaced (can't remember which cu it was bcm,pcm,tcm) replaced... still there...service manager says start with sensors again...long story short after replacing every sensor,a control module(pcm,tcm,bcm can't remember) still throwing codes. Time to get factory involved...ultimately the problem was caused by an incorrect color wire in the loom (not wired wrong just wrong color) ...how the *+*! Would a color cause a problem you ask ? It seems the company that manufactured the loom ran out of a certain color wire and dyed the jacket of a white wire ,eventuality the dye leeched through causing a change in internal resistance of the wire...

Think Outside !- No Box Required.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:17 AM
Frango100's Avatar
Premium Member

My Jeep: 2004 4.7L WJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brazil
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 526233
Frango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

When changing the gear selector doesn' t solve your problem, then you best check the resistance of each PCI bus wire and component. I have the resistance values somewhre in my computer at home, but lets wait first the results of the gear selectpr change.
__________________
Frank

JEEP Grand Cherokee 4.7 Lmtd 2004
HID 8000K in low and fog / Quad Squad member
KYB Gas-a-Just shocks / Pirelli Scorpion ATR 245/65/17 - Transgo reprogramming shiftkit.

VW Beetle 2.0 TSI 2013
My new toy
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:16 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2003
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 704
Hybrids is on a distinguished road
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Well... dispondency had set in and I really did not want to be doing anything to the Jeep, my list of automotive challenegs is long enough at the moment.
However, I leapt out of bed this morning determined to find out if I had wasted money on a s/h selector or not.

It had been suggested by the seller I clear all the fault codes, which I did and then disconnected the battery.

My lack of belief extended to leaving the old selector cables connected and just moving the unit out of the way while I plugged in the new one.

The bloody thing only worked !

Fitted properly it continues to work, switched on/off a few times and still everything works.

So my issue appears to be resolved, so my public appology goes out to my local Jeep dealer for was right all along
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:06 AM
Frango100's Avatar
Premium Member

My Jeep: 2004 4.7L WJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brazil
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 526233
Frango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond reputeFrango100 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: '04 WJ 2.7 CRD not starting - SKIM or other issue??

Good to hear its solved. These PCI bus problems can really be a pain in the *ss to solve and also cost a lot of money when not doing the trouble shooting right.
__________________

__________________
Frank

JEEP Grand Cherokee 4.7 Lmtd 2004
HID 8000K in low and fog / Quad Squad member
KYB Gas-a-Just shocks / Pirelli Scorpion ATR 245/65/17 - Transgo reprogramming shiftkit.

VW Beetle 2.0 TSI 2013
My new toy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CRD Starting Problem ENFORCER Export Grand Cherokee 2011+ 44 03-22-2013 09:05 AM
WK Starting Issue wcjr Troubleshooting/Problems 29 10-27-2011 04:40 PM
Starting issue, probably electrical larsonra Troubleshooting/Problems Discussion 6 10-03-2011 10:11 PM
help. starting issue. carfreak493 Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 3 09-20-2010 08:14 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by Chrysler Group LLC.