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Old 07-24-2013, 10:21 AM
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2003 4.7 starting issue

First off I have to say this forum is full of great information, and even greater people. So far I haven't been able to figure out my starting issue, so wanted to see if anyone had some tips or ideas.

It all started last week, my jeep would not start right away when turning key directly to start position. No click, no crank, nothing. If I waiting a few seconds in run position, it would start.

A few days of this, and then waiting those few seconds maked no difference.
Initial observations:
1. battery good, plenty of power. (only 7 months old as well)
2. because battery was good, ignoring alternator is possible issue.

At this point I assumed bad starter (original equipment with 200k miles)
After replacing starter, still nothing.
Since then I have investigated several items that I will list in next post. I will also post the current condition of the issue.
Thanks in advanced for everyone's help.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:38 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Current state:
If I disconnect the solenoid terminal wire harness and jump that to the solenoid battery terminal while the ignition is in the run position, the vehicle will start.

Tests performed:
1. I have checked the 10 Amp fuse in position 31 and it's good.
2. I have tested the Starter motor relay, and also swapped it out for a different one
3. I have verified cavity 30 is hot.
4. I have verified park/neutral position switch is working by checking continuity to ground at cavity 85. (can see changes while shifty between R/N/D as expected)
5. I DO NOT get voltage at cavity 86 when the ignition is turned to start position. (this leads me to think either ignition issue or wiring from ignition)

I read somewhere on this forum ( I think ) that if you connect positive battery terminal to 87? that the starter should engage, is that correct?
This is about where I'm at so far. Anyone with some ideas to try next?
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:21 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Yes, when you put 12 V directly on point 87, the starter solenoid will be activated directly and the starter should work. The problem you have seems to be with the ignition switch.
But have also a look first at fuse 14 in the PDC, which is also in the starting relay circuit.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ignition switch.pdf (165.0 KB, 7 views)
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

That is what I'm thinking, ignition problem.

I did try applying 12v to 87 and the starter did not engage. This leads me to believe that I might also have a wiring issue between 87 and solenoid. Could be bad connection introduced while replacing starter. I will have to verify continuity between 87 and solenoid to make sure the cable is okay.

Any troubleshooting that I can do on the ignition? The repair manual I do have says that if no voltage at 86 with ignition switch to start then:

1. check for an open or short circuit to the ignition switch and repair, if required.
2. if the circuit to the ignition switch is OK, refer to Ignition Switch and Key Lock Cylinder in the Diagnosis and Testing section of Group 8D - Ignition System for testing of the ignition switch.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Just did an update on my previous post, but you where to quick.
Check fuse 14 in the PDC under the hood, its a 40 A fuse, which is in the starter relay circuit.
Strange that putting 12 V on 87 didnīt engage the starter solenoid.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:42 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

If fuse 14 is ok, then you have to go to the ignition switch, remove connector C1 and jumper points 1 and 2. If it then starts, you are sure the ignition switch is faulty. Ofcourse you have to solve the problem between 87 and solenoid first.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:55 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Thanks for the tips Frank. I will check fuse 14 and hope it's bad.

Then I'll move on to C1 and post back.
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:23 PM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Due to the previously intermittent caracter its most probably the ignition switch, but better to rule out all (cheaper to fix) possibilities first.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

If it is the ignition switch, is it as simple removing steering column covers and replacing this $40 part?
Buy BWD Ignition Switch CS807 at Advance Auto Parts
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:20 PM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Didnīt change it on my jeep yet, but here is the procedure in case needed:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ignition switch removal-install.pdf (141.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:25 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

No luck, Fuse was good. I took the covers off the steering column last night hoping it was easier to get to the C1 connector you referred to so I could test that. It was a bit deeper in there then I thought. Do you have the key cylinder removal instructions as well? This latest doc talks about needing to do that first before removing the ignition switch.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:42 AM
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Re: 2003 4.7 starting issue

Here it is.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Key cylinder.pdf (144.7 KB, 7 views)
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