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NEED HELP...Death Wobble...Replaced almost everything and still occurs

32K views 50 replies 12 participants last post by  xJoshxx 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a recurring death wobble on a 2001 GC with a 2" coil spring spacer lift. I have searched almost every death wobble cure and I am at a loss. I have replaced a lot of my steering/suspension and I still get a death wobble. I do not know where to turn.

So far I replaced:
All 4 shocks (Skyjacker Nitro +2")
Moog Front coil Springs (plus 2" spacers)
Omix-Ada Track bar
Moog Steering Stabilizer
16x8 Pro Comp rims with 4.25" backspacing
Cooper Discoverer AT3 tires (225/75-16)
Wheel alignment from a trusted mechanic

What else can I replace or adjust to cure the issue?
 
#2 ·
death wobble is usually caused by a bad front end part , Tie rod, ball joints , sway bar links,etc.
does it happen at a certain speed? and can you drive thru it ? maybe you busted a belt on a tire. Have you rotated the tires?
 
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#3 ·
As Spyder said try rotating your tires. One bad balance job could be enough to set it off. Lifted WJs are super touchy. Then I would start with the tie rod and drag link ends. Also make sure the track bar mounting bracket holes are not egged out and the bolts are super tight.
 
#4 ·
I have brand new tires, balanced at the same time. The DW happened yesterday twice around 40-45mph. The first time I slowed down to get rid of it, the 2nd time I accelerated out of it. I will start checking out the TREs. How do i check them?
 
#5 ·
check all rubber caps on the tie rods and ball joints to see if they are ripped , if so This could be a good place to start

you need to Jack up one side and push on either side of the tire and see if there is excessive play , also from top to bottom.



To check the ball joints - use a board and place it under the tire and see if you can lift up (gently ) on the wheel . If you have a lot of movement up and down then your ball joints are bad. This will also check the wheel bearings as well.

Just because the tires are new doesnt mean they are balanced correctly ( or maybe you threw a weight , one fell off) .

I had a set that were balanced and on the wheels when they were delivered brand new . It ended up they were Counter balanced and did the same thing as you are describing.

Counter balance is when the weights of the wheels are placed so they make the wheel even more unbalanced
 
#6 · (Edited)
#7 ·
Today I checked the TREs and Ball joints for play. Everything is surprisingly tight! The track bar is pretty solid, no play. Am i looking for "egged" holes in the upper or lower mounts? I guess I will have Firestone check the balance on the tires since I have a Lifetime Alignment/Balance package from them.

I drive 50 miles a day, mostly highway miles, and I do not feel any vibration or anything. If something were faulty, wouldn't i feel something. I did notice that I can jiggle my steering wheel a little and the jeep still drives straight. Conversely, when driving straight, i feel like i have to "correct" the steering often,
 
#9 ·
Today I checked the TREs and Ball joints for play. Everything is surprisingly tight! The track bar is pretty solid, no play. Am i looking for "egged" holes in the upper or lower mounts? I guess I will have Firestone check the balance on the tires since I have a Lifetime Alignment/Balance package from them.

I drive 50 miles a day, mostly highway miles, and I do not feel any vibration or anything. If something were faulty, wouldn't i feel something. I did notice that I can jiggle my steering wheel a little and the jeep still drives straight. Conversely, when driving straight, i feel like i have to "correct" the steering often,
Eventhough i have never experienced the DW myself, my jeep also has some play in the steering wheel. I have to change my tierods, but it seems that there is some play in the steering gearbox as well.
What you also can check is the input rod to the steering gearbox. There is a kind of a coupling which could create some play.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I agree with AMSOIL dealer , what are the conditions on which it occurs ? is it after a bump?

Did you happen to check the Joint at the steering box?

To check this , have some one turn the wheel while you watch the joint and see if there is any up and down movement in the joint.

It seems that most older jeeps have sloppy power steering boxes , so it wouldnt be a surprise if yours did as well but, you shouldnt be fighting it.

oh ,and a good way of checking the track bar is to , turn the wheel when the jeep is on the ground and if the whole body in the front ( other then the tires ) move . then you have a track bar issue . It will be a side to side motion
 
#11 ·
The two times the DW occurred was on a flat road hitting either a bump or shallow pot hole. So I used to have a Kevins Off Road Secondary Steering Stabilizer on my jeep to help combat the DW. It seemed to work. When I had my trackbar replaced, my mechanic removed the stabilizer because he said it was binding up. (he showed me the bent screws and everything). Well today I reinstalled the steering stabilizer with shorter screws...well it bound up again and got itself stuck or jammed with the wheels cut to the left. As i tried to free it, i must have turned the wheel too hard as not my steering wheel is not centered anymore and there is even more play in the steering. It felt extremely loost on my 25 mile journey back home. I am so frustrated now, I may replace the tie rod and drag link just to eliminate another possible cause of DW.
 
#12 · (Edited)
what pins bent? Can you post a pic?
Also. If you were driving on it and it was bound up . Then you probably bent either the tie rod coming down from the steering box .
Can you also post a pic of the front of the jeep ( drag link , tie rods , etc. ?
You should probably at this point replace them anyway due to the stresses placed on the joints from driving with it bound up.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
 
#13 ·
Had that happen to me 3 times on my 99wj. Twice within an hour. Hit a small pothole and then a crazy death wobble on the highway. I was very scared and pulled over right away to check the car/tires. Took it to the mechanic. They said the ball joints were bad. Replaced both. The DW never came back. Sold the WJ shortly after.
 
#14 ·
i will post pictures tomorrow. I contacted Kevins Off Road and here is the response they sent me. Is it accurate?

"Drew, it's likely that your drag link (or tie rod) is rotating on it's
axis when you turn left and right. This is typical on a lifted
vehicle. You can remedy most of that rotation by binding the tie rod
ends against each other. You would do that by loosening both tie rod
ends, twisting one forward in it's pivot, locking it down, and then
twisting the other one backwards in it's pivot, and then locking IT
down. This will keep the tie rod from rotating throughout the moment
of a "change in force" of the steering rod."
 
#16 ·
i will post pictures tomorrow. I contacted Kevins Off Road and here is the response they sent me. Is it accurate?

"Drew, it's likely that your drag link (or tie rod) is rotating on it's
axis when you turn left and right. This is typical on a lifted
vehicle. You can remedy most of that rotation by binding the tie rod
ends against each other. You would do that by loosening both tie rod
ends, twisting one forward in it's pivot, locking it down, and then
twisting the other one backwards in it's pivot, and then locking IT
down. This will keep the tie rod from rotating throughout the moment
of a "change in force" of the steering rod."
This seems to be correct yes. By doing what they describe, you prevent the rotating movement of the rod and could prevent some play.
 
#15 ·
I would do a thorough inspection first to find out if something is bend and if it would not endanger further use of the jeep. Loosing the steering completely due to a part which fails due to being overstressed, is not a good idea. Not telling you that it is dangerous now, but better to check it first, so that you know what is going on.
 
#17 ·
Death Wobble is inherent to the solid axle. Occuring at 40 to 45 MPH usually has a root cause in wheel balance. First thing I would do is to swap the front and rear wheels, and see if it still happens. Any looseness in the trackbar will aggravate it. A wheel out of round can cause it. A bad motor mount can cause a reaction like death wobble. I've only had on my XJ, and replacing the ball joints ended it.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Here is the pictures of the carnage...I plan on replacing ball joints, tie rod ends, hubs, axle shafts. I figure i might as well get the latter two items done while everything is ripped apart. All parts will be Moog except for the ball joints which are "Alloy USA" and "ToughOne" axle shafts.

I apologize for the pictures being crooked but for some reason my computer does not recognize the changes i made to them
 

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#19 ·
I can honestly say thats the first time I have ever seen a stabilizer there.... There is barely enough room for it. It looks as though it may have come in contact with the drag link though.


Have you replaced everything yet?
 
#20 ·
Yeah there's no need for dual stabilizers on anything especially a Jeep with all the crazy angles under there. They're destined to bind and IMO are just a band aid over an arterial bleed to try to mask the real problem.
 
#21 ·
@Spyder, I followed the directions from Kevins Off Road and they say the stabilizer goes between the tie rod and track bar. When something got bound up, I bent the tie rod. I have not replaced anything yet. I am waiting to get the Ball joints from 4wheelparts.com. I bought Alloy USA. I hope those are good.

@Cheap Jeep, You are right. The secondary stabilizer is a dollar store bandaid. I am an engineer and when I took a closer look at the design of the jeep steering and the placement of the secondary stabilizer...I found something peculiar. The stabilizer is supposed to absorb movement from the DW in the X-axis. It is mounted on the diagonal (yeah i know its supposed to be parallel to the drag link) in the X-Y axis. The dynamic movement it is absorbing from a death wobble is actually in the XYZ axes. Its simply not cut out for the job.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I saw that and I don't buy their claim . If you have some huge lift then their should be enough room. But not in this situation.

Alloy makes good stuff. I had their axle shafts in my Yj and had no problems
 
#23 ·
Oh make sure you save your receipt. I know they will have a warranty that comes with the ball joints
 
#24 ·
Well I hate to bring this up but since you're in this deep I'd change the control arm bushings upper and lower axle end and take a look at the frame end.The top axle end bushings are a known trouble spot,not expensive and your WJ being an '01 probably needs them or is close to it.
 
#25 ·
I am not trying to get you to spend more money but I agree with Cheapjeep. I always looked at it as , I am taking it apart once , Might as well change anything that looks bad or is worn ( or is known to go bad) Rather then having to take it apart twice. If you have the money and the time.

i took mine to get it inspected once and had a Tie rod end going bad . so , Not Remembering when the others were installed . I replaced all of them. Plus this gave ,me a trail set.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I always look at the cost/ time factor. How much are the bushing, how easy are they going to be to replace compared to the cost of new ones with bushings installed

My wife's commander for example. It cost me $20 more dollars to replace the whole arm then what it was just to buy the bushings.
Also how much would new bolts cost compared to trying to beat the old ones out.
I ended up buying all new bolts because hers were seized in the bushings.


We found this also with arms on my LJ. It was easier and less stressful( on me and the jeep) just to buy new bolts.


I have never done bushings on a Wj so I cant say how hard it will be. Cheapjeep or the others may be able to give you a better Idea.
 
#28 · (Edited)
The front upper arm rear bushings are pressed in the arms, but the front bushings are pressed in the axle itself. The left lug (seen from drivers position), is quite strong, but the right lug is fragile and deforms easily when pressing the bushing out. There is a special tool which fits inside the hollow lug, which prevents it from deforming.
If you could get the arms with bushings for a good price, i would go that route.
Just changed the rear upper A-arm bushings on my jeep, but they are already shot after less then 1000 Km driving (Omix-Ada). Installed the new ones exactly the same way the old ones where installed, but i already didn't like the quality too much when installing, just too fragile for the job it has to perform.
Was thinking in buying a new A-arm with the bushings, for USD 110 a good option, but shipping would run into USD 240 and then 60% of tax over the USD 350 total:eek:. Decided to try bushings from Dorman first for USD 8 a piece.
 
#32 ·
I wouldn't worry about the upper arms because they don't come with the axle side bushings anyway. Just get the bushings that press into the upper mounts on the axle and I think you'll be fine.
 
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