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  #1  
Old 06-19-2015, 04:26 PM
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Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

So a few days ago my wife calls me to tell me the jeep is sputtering and shaking. She drove for 15 minutes, turned it off while in the gym, about an hour and started it up which is when the rough idling and shaking happened. I drove it home (which I realized was more adventure than I wanted) with it hesitating, shaking and smelling of gas and fumes them whole time. It stalled several times on the 6 mile ride home and did not always want to restart. pressing the gas pedal sometimes did nothing and stalling occurred during stops .
Originally I got trouble codes po202(injector #2), po505(IAC), po300(multiple cylinder misfire), po301 & 302 (cyl misfire 1 & 2). I grudgingly replaced all the spark plugs and ignition coils as well as the IAC valve.
I cleared the codes and it's still idling the same. New codes are po141, 161, & 202. I checked all the resistances on the injectors and they read 1-17.3, 2-16.7, 3-12.8, 4-14.3, 5-15.2, 6-15.1, 7-12.9, 8-12.9. I checked the schrader valve and there was gas pressure. Any ideas?

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  #2  
Old 06-19-2015, 04:34 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

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Originally Posted by Ole Abner View Post
So a few days ago my wife calls me to tell me the jeep is sputtering and shaking. She drove for 15 minutes, turned it off while in the gym, about an hour and started it up which is when the rough idling and shaking happened. I drove it home (which I realized was more adventure than I wanted) with it hesitating, shaking and smelling of gas and fumes them whole time. It stalled several times on the 6 mile ride home and did not always want to restart. pressing the gas pedal sometimes did nothing and stalling occurred during stops .
Originally I got trouble codes po202(injector #2), po505(IAC), po300(multiple cylinder misfire), po301 & 302 (cyl misfire 1 & 2). I grudgingly replaced all the spark plugs and ignition coils as well as the IAC valve.
I cleared the codes and it's still idling the same. New codes are po141, 161, & 202. I checked all the resistances on the injectors and they read 1-17.3, 2-16.7, 3-12.8, 4-14.3, 5-15.2, 6-15.1, 7-12.9, 8-12.9. I checked the schrader valve and there was gas pressure. Any ideas?
Anyone put E-85 ethanol into her by mistake?
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Old 06-19-2015, 04:39 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Abner View Post
So a few days ago my wife calls me to tell me the jeep is sputtering and shaking. She drove for 15 minutes, turned it off while in the gym, about an hour and started it up which is when the rough idling and shaking happened. I drove it home (which I realized was more adventure than I wanted) with it hesitating, shaking and smelling of gas and fumes them whole time. It stalled several times on the 6 mile ride home and did not always want to restart. pressing the gas pedal sometimes did nothing and stalling occurred during stops .
Originally I got trouble codes po202(injector #2), po505(IAC), po300(multiple cylinder misfire), po301 & 302 (cyl misfire 1 & 2). I grudgingly replaced all the spark plugs and ignition coils as well as the IAC valve.
I cleared the codes and it's still idling the same. New codes are po141, 161, & 202. I checked all the resistances on the injectors and they read 1-17.3, 2-16.7, 3-12.8, 4-14.3, 5-15.2, 6-15.1, 7-12.9, 8-12.9. I checked the schrader valve and there was gas pressure. Any ideas?
I'd do the easy stuff and look for an injector that is leaking externally first.
As I would guess the alternative is an injector that is jammed open.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2015, 04:45 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

No E-85 ethanol, but that never occurred to me. I'll file that for later. If the injector were jammed open, would it read differently? I didn't see any wet or greasy film or spots around the injectors. what would the signs be?
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Old 06-19-2015, 05:14 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Abner View Post
No E-85 ethanol, but that never occurred to me. I'll file that for later. If the injector were jammed open, would it read differently? I didn't see any wet or greasy film or spots around the injectors. what would the signs be?
I know someone who put a half tank in from the E-85 pump into their 2003 WK 4.7 and had the same symptoms. The dealership got it running again but for some reason their gas mileage dropped quite a bit and never recovered.
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Old 06-19-2015, 05:51 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

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Originally Posted by GlowingGhoul View Post
I know someone who put a half tank in from the E-85 pump into their 2003 WK 4.7 and had the same symptoms. The dealership got it running again but for some reason their gas mileage dropped quite a bit and never recovered.
Speaking of chemicals and gas tanks. I wonder if seafoam would help at all.
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Old 06-19-2015, 06:37 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

For some reason the PCM is seeing a fault in the injector #2 circuit. The fact that you smell raw fuel could point towards a stuck open injector. You could try some seafoam in the tank, you never know. There could be eventually a short towards the injector wire, keeping it open all the time. Check the wire bundles first for any shaving against a metal surface or shaved through wire isolation.
I only donīt know why this would influence the #1 cylinder as well (misfire). Was there any strange color to the plugs (especially #1 and #2)?
The P0141 and P0161 codes are for both after cat O2 sensor heaters. They are mostly used for monitoring the catalyser efficiency, so i would not expect them to be the real problem here.
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Old 06-19-2015, 08:50 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

All of the plugs were black. Not oily black but probably from out living their life. They all seemed about the same. They were the double lead variety. I'm willing to believe the O2 sensor codes are a symptom of the overall condition of the exhaust when it runs like this, but injector #2 control circuit keeps coming back. I will look for frayed or damaged wires. I didn't see any when I was testing the ohmage but that means nothing. Thank you so far for the responses. This vehicle was supposed to be the safe, reliable, family car, bought from the family friend who "took care of it". We've put a few grand in cash into it already in just two years.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:46 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

So I cleared the codes. Checked all the wires for shorts, cracks in the jacket or anything exposed or out of the ordinary. Started up the jeep, let it run for about 10 minutes and got the same po202 code for injector # 2. There is nothing amiss visually that I can see from the outside, but I'm hesitant to take the injector out to look. I've never done that before and don't want to cause more issues. Any words of wisedom or "if I were you" course of action comments?
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Old 06-20-2015, 06:25 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

I replaced injector #2. Started'er up, and it was the same. Just for laughs, I pulled the connector off of #2 and nothing changed. The book says something about an output driver not responding properly to the control signal. What is that?
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:25 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

So do you still smell raw fuel from the exhaust fumes? That disconnecting the injector connector doesnt make any change in how it runs, proofs that the injector is also not opening with the connector connected. Did you already remove the connectors from the PCM and checked them for moisture/corrosion or discolored pins? Did you check the #2 injector wires for continuity and short to ground? If all the wiring measures out good, then the problem is most probably with the PCM.
The output driver which you mentioned is inside the PCM. It should make or break the electrical circuit for the injector, depending on sensor inputs and a preprogrammed fuel schedule.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:16 PM
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Re: Shuttering, stalling, rough idle.

Yes. I rang out all the wiring. I ended up having it towed yesterday to a mechanic. He called today saying that in his opinion it was the computer. The thing is, the dealer replaced it in November of 2013. Warranty is most likely up. I'm waiting for a call back on that. Last time it was replaced by the stealer it cost $1300. Not sure if it's worth it to drop the cash again. Options, opinions?
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