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Old 01-27-2013, 09:58 AM
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Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

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Writing in Thursday’s edition of Automotive News, Larry Vellequette reports that Chrysler/Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne plans to present a revised five-year product plan during next Wednesday’s quarterly earnings call.

While most of the benchmarks promised in the original 2009 plan have been achieved on schedule, ongoing challenges have required enough reevaluation that Marchionne has decided a revision of what can be realistically expected is necessary.

Most notable among possible corrections are products like the Jeep Grand Wagoneer and new, Fiat-based sub-compact B- and C-Series cars for Chrysler and Dodge. Though an extra-large Jeep might be appealing to some, the market for plus-sized American SUVs has declined considerably from its peak: in 2012, combined sales of the Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV and Lincoln Navigator were more than 10,000 units less than those posted by the Escalde alone in 2006. Sales of the Ford Expedition are down 56.4% over the same period and sales of the Chevrolet Suburban have plunged over 37.7%. Tahoe sales are even worse – they’re down 57.7%. Chrysler senior management may have decided there’s not enough potential for a new vehicle to justify it.

While the subcompact segment is more active, there’s a legitimate question about how well rebadged Fiats might sell under the Dodge and Chrysler brands as opposed to simply selling them as Fiats and expanding the sales potential for Fiat dealers and allowing Marchionne to reopen more production in Italy, solving some vexing problems in the home market.
News: New Chrysler product plan next week

There is no market for a "super large Grand Cherokee", so I'm not surprised if Marchionne kills the Grand Wagoneer.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:01 AM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

That's odd if they do axe the GW. Try to find a used Commander at a decent price. They didn't sell good new but are hard to find used.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:06 AM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

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Originally Posted by Srt8_hmi View Post
They didn't sell good new but are hard to find used.
That's self fulfilling. Not a good reason to launch a product.


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Old 01-27-2013, 11:19 AM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

The article was a good find. I have been waiting to see the new grand wagoneer after I sold my Durango with the 3rd row seat. I didn't use the 3rd row that much but in came in handy enough that I was interested in buying another vehicle like it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

thanks for the info, was really interested in getting a grand wagoneer to replace a acadia
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:42 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

Nothing is official until it's official.

Right now, this is all speculation.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:27 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

I was told of some whispers a couple days ago that it could be announced on the 30th. Guess we'll see then?/????
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:53 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

Well, it’s. The 30th, and Chrysler announced today their updated project plan (relative to a plan published in 2009). Some of the changes we are all aware of. They don't mention specific models for future products, but there will be no new chrysler built Jeep models until calendar 2015. One of those models was originally planned for 2013...and I'm guessing that's the Wagoneer.

So 2015+ still seems accurate...though if it's introduced in 2015 I assume it will be a 2016 model year.

Chrysler Reveals Revised 5-Year Product Plan, 2012 Full-Year Profit of $1.7 Billion - WOT on Motor Trend
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:39 AM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

I wonder why they would base their decisions off of models developed and released 7-10 years ago...Tahoe/escalade came out in 07, expedition/navigator have only been facelifted since 03 with no changes to powertrains since. When we have kids, the wife would probably like to step up from our current Grand to a 3 row grand(wagoneer) as she's not real fond of the Durango, and we would look to the Q7 or GL to have 3 rows without the size of an expedition/tahoe/etc, and diesel power. We drove them all(BMW,merc,Audi, her dad has escalade) and we thought the jeep was the nicest with the most content for $20-35k less. The new GL I built online rang in at $79k to have one more option( massaging seat) than what our LuxII Limited has(GL w/ diesel our jeep is hemi), and our jeep was $40k. Just saying, a wagoneer in limited/overland trim could come in low $50's out the door and I think it would sell big time in my opinion.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:19 AM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

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Originally Posted by joenjulie View Post
I wonder why they would base their decisions off of models developed and released 7-10 years ago...Tahoe/escalade came out in 07, expedition/navigator have only been facelifted since 03 with no changes to powertrains since.
With gas prices being what they are, fewer and fewer people are buying full-blown "truck" based SUVs. The soccer moms of the world and those who otherwise need "people and stuff" movers (but no significant towing) have shifted to crossovers. That's why (IMO) auto makers are not pouring dollars into refreshing / upgrading the current line of truck based SUVs. They are stretching them out as long as they can.

Quote:
When we have kids, the wife would probably like to step up from our current Grand to a 3 row grand(wagoneer) as she's not real fond of the Durango, and we would look to the Q7 or GL to have 3 rows without the size of an expedition/tahoe/etc, and diesel power.
I have kids (2), and I bought an '02 Pontiac Montana minivan new just before our second was born. This is my daily driver and now 11 years and 185K miles later...I'm looking for a new vehicle to purchase this year. I would actually consider minivans again if they still made AWD versions, but the only model out there with AWD is a Sienna, and I don't particularly like it.

Auto makers have all seeming decided together: If you want AWD and are willing to sacrifice some room...here's our crossover. If you want max room for people, here's our minivan. If you want serious towing and three rows...here's our truck based SUV.

Quote:
We drove them all(BMW,merc,Audi, her dad has escalade) and we thought the jeep was the nicest with the most content for $20-35k less.
Because my family is only 2 kid, we will only be using the third row when driving others. Because of that I will not consider the GM Truck Based SUVs because the third row does not fold flat.

I do think you owe it to yourself to check out the new GM Lambda models (Travers, Enclave, Acadia). Fully decked out they will come in at about $50k, and have more room than any other crossover (and more room than some truck based SUVs). They too have essentially the same powertrain since they were introduced in '07, but the exterior and interiors have recevied a refresh for the '13 models.

The Audi and BMW are too small for me. The Merc (as you noted), escalates quickly in price.

Quote:
...a wagoneer in limited/overland trim could come in low $50's out the door and I think it would sell big time in my opinion.
Agreed.

I don't think I'll be able to wait until '15 to see what the Wagoneer brings, so my decision looks to be coming down to a '13 Acadia, or a '14 Durango. The Acaida has more room and I would say is the better highway cruiser / vacation vehicle (unless you need to tow). The Durango should be a better daily driver, better gas milage (especially the Pentastar with the 8 speed), better towing, and should have better electronics / features. (I still can't believe you can't get touch entry / push button start in the newly refreshed acadia...)

I have to say I am really surprised that more auto makers have not followed GMs lead and produce LARGE crossover SUVs (lambdas.) Every single other crossover is a step down in size compared to the Lambdas. I think that's the single biggest reason why the lambdas are very successful compared to the others. GM decided to ditch the minivan altogether, so the lambda is the "defacto minivan" for them.

Chrysler still uses the "minivan plus smaller crossover" combination, as does Nissan, Toyota, Honda. LLike GM, Ford also ditched the minivan too and at least made an attempt at a "large crossover" with the Flex, but most are turned off by the styling. (Why they didn't just make an extended explorer....who knows.)

The prefect vehicle for me would be something on the current durango / grand cherokee platform, but just a bit longer than the durango so there's more room inside. Make the 2nd row adjustable fore / aft and more room behind the 3rd row.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:55 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

I agree people are shifting away from the biggies(there will always be a need for some) and the jeeps aren't the big truck based, and I believe the article said they looked at data on the decline of the expedition/navigator and Tahoe/escalade/Yukon. I think the jeep would stay relevant no matter gas prices, and if they have the diesel, and add DI and turbos to the V6's(3.0,3.2,3.6) that will help also with MPG, power etc
I too think a minivan overall is better value, more room, mileage, etc and with some blizzaks will get you through most winter stuff(my mom had blizzaks and minivan and no problems before she went to jeeps).
i would check them out, but the wife doesn't like the look of the new ones, she liked the old style Acadia...it's not an option if she doesn't like the exterior. I mean would you try to buy a car if your wife didn't like to look at it?
Congrats getting your Montana to 185k, at 60k my sisters was toast, and GM bought back my brothers Venture, at one point the sliding doors would open and close while driving...with kids in the car seats, very bad.
My vehicle too would be as you described, jeep/Durango type cross with sliding seats, etc with diesel or twin turbo V6 cuz they will surely be phasing out my hemi.
On a side note, I feel if you're buying an SUV, you go into it knowing they aren't the best on gas, it's a trade off. You want mileage, buy a diesel Jetta, you want an SUV you gotta put in the fuel. Cracks me up when people say, I got a hemi, the mileage sucks...what did you think it was, a Prius?
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:35 PM
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Re: Marchionne to probably delay/cancel Grand Wagoneer

the GW is not being cancelled...just pushed back due to some development costs of other platforms...14 GC to be exact....LOL
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