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  #73  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Hopefully some of the tech capable folks here can answer this.

In looking at photos of the installation of the wiring kit I started to wonder why they went this route. Our Escape had EPS and when setting up for towing the ignition switch had to be set to ACC (did Ford understand something that FCA has not - or is there something different between the Cherokee and Escape?).

So, my question is "why could they have not solved this by having us go through the procedure described in the flat towing instructions and leave the ignition in the ACC position?" One might say, oh, it will run the battery down. But, we also had our Brake Buddy plugged into the lighter connection of the Escape and still never had a battery drain and been unable to start.

Now, FCA strongly suggests (almost insists) that a power connection from the MH to the Cherokee battery should be installed when the wiring kit is installed. So, if there was an unusual power drain that would run down the battery, a power connection would take care of placing the ignition in ACC.

Am I missing something here - or did the FCA brain trust miss what might be an easier alternative? It might be that in the case of the Cherokee power does not run through the EPS when the ignition is in ACC.

Anyone have any good technical insights on this? It sure would have been a lot less costly and much simpler.

GR

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  #74  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:35 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandriver125 View Post
Hopefully some of the tech capable folks here can answer this.

In looking at photos of the installation of the wiring kit I started to wonder why they went this route. Our Escape had EPS and when setting up for towing the ignition switch had to be set to ACC (did Ford understand something that FCA has not - or is there something different between the Cherokee and Escape?).

So, my question is "why could they have not solved this by having us go through the procedure described in the flat towing instructions and leave the ignition in the ACC position?" One might say, oh, it will run the battery down. But, we also had our Brake Buddy plugged into the lighter connection of the Escape and still never had a battery drain and been unable to start.

Now, FCA strongly suggests (almost insists) that a power connection from the MH to the Cherokee battery should be installed when the wiring kit is installed. So, if there was an unusual power drain that would run down the battery, a power connection would take care of placing the ignition in ACC.

Am I missing something here - or did the FCA brain trust miss what might be an easier alternative? It might be that in the case of the Cherokee power does not run through the EPS when the ignition is in ACC.

Anyone have any good technical insights on this? It sure would have been a lot less costly and much simpler.

GR
Many vehicles have steering wheel locks which require that the ignition switch be left in the un-locked "ACC" position. That could have been the case with the Ford Escape.

What FCA missed, as they advertised the Cherokee being the "ideal towed vehicle" is the anti-wobble mechanism in the KL's solenoid driven EPS. ENgineers, I am sure, knew EPS would not be active with the ignition in the OFF (or ACC) positions. The servo motors of Cherokee's EPS do nothing to stop wobble with Ign Off.

Evidently other vehicles with "electric" Power steering, where there is an electric pump, have hydraulic steering boost systems, just like the "conventional" power steering in which the pump is engine driven. It's the hydraulics which dampen the wobble tendencies in these vehicles. Again, I'm not sure, but it sounds like the Escape had such an electric PS.
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  #75  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:34 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

The Escape was my wife's car although I usually drove if we were both in the vehicle. I do not recall that it had a steering wheel lock. I just looked at the Op Man and no mention of it there either. Lots on the EPAS though. They point out no fluids involved etc.

It may be that with the ACC ignition setting provided provided power to the EPAS. As I noted, we never had a flat battery when towing for an entire day. If we had to stop for fuel I would run the engine for five minutes as instructed.

GR
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  #76  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:08 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandriver125 View Post
.... Lots on the EPAS though. They point out no fluids involved etc.
I'll throw in the KL's front suspension as a usual suspect. Remember, the "Active Shimmy Mitigation" software/hardware technology is defined in a Chrysler patent. Doesn't mean Ford can't have something similar, but maybe not. Also, many AD1 KL's with straight half shafts had wobble problems during normal driving. The KL's suspension may be pushing the boundaries. It's possible the suspension geometry engineers leaned heavily on the advantage of having EPS and active shimmy mitigation software to pull off fitting all that stuff east/west in the chassis (engine/transmission/PTU/differential/half shafts). There was mention quite a while ago that the KL's front suspension and steering might change in 2017. Maybe they know something has to change.
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  #77  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:12 AM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

I hope someone can help. I want to purchase a 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk. The dealer says that the wiring harness is not required. He quotes TBS 08-29-16a. It states that the vehicle must have the 4x4 with the Sales Code 5I4. The one I want has the 4x4 Code 5I4S. Does anyone know for sure if the 5I4S does or does not require the wiring harness?

Thanks,

Wally
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  #78  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Is this something Jeep Cares would know about?
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  #79  
Old 06-16-2016, 12:11 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

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Originally Posted by Fudgeanyone View Post
I hope someone can help. I want to purchase a 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk. The dealer says that the wiring harness is not required. He quotes TBS 08-29-16a. It states that the vehicle must have the 4x4 with the Sales Code 5I4. The one I want has the 4x4 Code 5I4S. Does anyone know for sure if the 5I4S does or does not require the wiring harness?

Thanks,

Wally
Dealer is either misinformed or just plain lying. If the dealer maintains no kit is needed, show him the updated 2015 KL owners manual available online. (Jeep Owners | Download an Owners Manual 2004 - 2011 | Jeep) On page 585 it says, for all 2-Speed Power Transfer Unit equipped KL's, which are the only ones approved to be towed 4 wheels down:
"Before towing, See your authorized dealer for the Mopar flat tow wiring kit..."
and on p. 589:
"Failure to use the proper Mopar wiring kit to power
the steering system during recreational towing may
damage the vehicle’s steering system and/or other
vehicle components."

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  #80  
Old 06-16-2016, 12:18 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudgeanyone View Post
I hope someone can help. I want to purchase a 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk. The dealer says that the wiring harness is not required. He quotes TBS 08-29-16a. It states that the vehicle must have the 4x4 with the Sales Code 5I4. The one I want has the 4x4 Code 5I4S. Does anyone know for sure if the 5I4S does or does not require the wiring harness?

Thanks,

Wally
First time I've heard about the sales code actually being involved. When I read that TSB I thought, well isn't it always going to be a 4x4 if it's AD2? Hopefully the dealer knows what they are talking about. Here are a few points I would want clarification on:

- What does the 'S' in the sales code indicate? This 2008 listing of sales codes Sales Codes Details says the code is only 3 digits (even though 'i' is not a digit ).

- What is different about this TH with the 5i4S sales code that makes it immune to the death wobble while being towed?

- What if the TH is purchased and in fact goes into the death wobble while being towed? Will the dealership put in writing that the kit will be installed at no charge?

- Did this vehicle get the "FLAT TOW OWNER ADDENDUM CARD"

To me, this doesn't make sense. Is it possible that the sales code 5i4S is not qualified to get the kit for some reason (e.g. built for non-NAFTA), but that doesn't mean it won't go into the death wobble?

Let us know anything you learn. Be careful out there .
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  #81  
Old 06-16-2016, 12:20 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpasetto View Post
.... If the dealer maintains no kit is needed, show him the updated 2015 KL owners manual available online.
Very good point!
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Old 06-16-2016, 12:53 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudgeanyone View Post
I hope someone can help. I want to purchase a 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk. The dealer says that the wiring harness is not required. He quotes TBS 08-29-16a. It states that the vehicle must have the 4x4 with the Sales Code 5I4. The one I want has the 4x4 Code 5I4S. Does anyone know for sure if the 5I4S does or does not require the wiring harness?

Thanks,

Wally

Just a shot in the dark, but does the 2015 TH you wish to purchase have the Technology Group? If it doesn't, that might be the answer to a question that has been bugging me and that is "does this issue have something to do with the lane sense and related steering correction included in the Tech Group?



GR
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  #83  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:13 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Array View Post
First time I've heard about the sales code actually being involved. When I read that TSB I thought, well isn't it always going to be a 4x4 if it's AD2? Hopefully the dealer knows what they are talking about. Here are a few points I would want clarification on:

- What does the 'S' in the sales code indicate? This 2008 listing of sales codes Sales Codes Details says the code is only 3 digits (even though 'i' is not a digit ).

- What is different about this TH with the 5i4S sales code that makes it immune to the death wobble while being towed?

- What if the TH is purchased and in fact goes into the death wobble while being towed? Will the dealership put in writing that the kit will be installed at no charge?

- Did this vehicle get the "FLAT TOW OWNER ADDENDUM CARD"

To me, this doesn't make sense. Is it possible that the sales code 5i4S is not qualified to get the kit for some reason (e.g. built for non-NAFTA), but that doesn't mean it won't go into the death wobble?

Let us know anything you learn. Be careful out there .
A few points o n which I may be able to elaborate...
- the 5I4"S" code. I recently looked at a list of sales codes, all 3 character, the "5I4" means the 4WD. (I did not find a table listing the 5I4S code, maybe I just didn't look in the right place.) The only difference between the TH and the AD2 version of your Limited is that locking differential mode, which in sales literature is referred to as "Active Drive Lock" but in references regarding towing it is considered the same as AD2.

The TH is definitely not immune to the wobble, there have been documented cases. Also, as you know the wobble has really nothing to do with the 4WD system ... it's just that the issue of wobble-while-towing only raises it's ugly head for the 2 speed 4WD models, eg the Lat&Lim with AD2 and the TH. (also, ref earlier post, manual specifies kit for all 2-speed 4WD models, which are the only towable ones anyway.)

By the way, the kit was installed by dealer on my TH a couple of weeks ago (arranged via Jeepcares/Kori) and I had only one opportunity to test it so far. However I only drove about 25-30 miles, although I did look for bumpy road sections. It's far from a conclusive test since some KL's have gone thousands of miles before experiencing a wobble. Next week a longer run is planned, and after that the Monaco Int rally in Syracuse, NY and FMCA convention in Springfield MA are in the plans.

Safe travels all.
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  #84  
Old 06-16-2016, 07:52 PM
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Re: 2014 Jeep Cherokee rv tow wobble

I got hold of Kori at Jeep Care and she ran the VIN and found it on the S13 list thus a wiring harness is required. Kori is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to flat towing.

Thanks for the comments.
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