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  #61  
Old 08-15-2013, 09:35 AM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by willx View Post
more power!!!!! Everyone must buy a v6.
ok.
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  #62  
Old 08-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
MORE POWER!!!!! EVERYONE MUST BUY A V6 NO MORE FOUR CYL EVER EVERYBODY DO WHAT I SAY.....



You know what, drive em both and see what you think. perception and purpose are more imporatant than anyones opnion of what you should get. On the other hand devils advocate is a fun position.
Too bad I won't be able to drive one until December (but that's my delivery date anyway), I'm stuck in Afghanistan right now. I upgraded to the V6 looking at trade-in value on the future and the fact that the trailhawk is a bigger haul and the pentastar is an easier engine to work on. A lot of different variables but when it comes down to it the only advantage of the tigershark is grass mileage and looking at the recent reviews (which identify the fact that fuel consumption statistics haven't been officially determined) -2 mpg is a hit my wallet can take.

My wallet can also take an 800 dollar hit for built-in NAV :P
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  #63  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:06 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by jtdelisio View Post
Up until they came out with the new and upgraded center consoles (literally this year) I wouldn't argue with any of the valid points you have made. But the NAV that is embedded in the 8.4" uConnect system actually updates automatically with traffic updates to include road closures and openings. Updating your NAV maps is mainly for industrial changes (i.e. where's the nearest chick-fil-a).

I sincerely recommend looking into the new interface as it was said before, the upgraded screen and NAV option is a whole lot more than just NAV. Or you could just go to a jeep/chrysler dealership that has the 8.4" screen option installed and play with it yourself.
Hi. I'm new here and looking at a 2014 Cherokee (Limited or Trailhawk). The number of possible options and combinations of options is a bit overwhelming. One of them is uConnect - including the pluses and minuses of the built in Nav system.

Before someone posts a condescending comment like, "Do your homework", know that I have done my homework and still have open questions.

For my needs, built-in Nav would be great and I have NO problem spending an extra $800 for it. That is, IF it is a safe, usable tool. A safe usable tool means that the maps are updated. If the maps aren't updated, it's a toy and could be a dangerous toy if it gives you invalid information. I have no interest in spending $800 for a toy, dangerous or otherwise.

From this thread it appears that there are two ways of updating the information - through map update or through the "SiriusXM Traffic" feature.

The map update looks very expensive at $150 per update. That seems unreasonably high given that current standards for GPS devices and software are to provide free map updates. However...

The bigger issue is the frequency of map update. The current standard for GPS hardware and software is updated maps every few months.

When I checked the uConnect website for the Grand Cherokee, it shows that the last model year for which they have an update is 2012 - two years old. Not acceptable.

So what about "SiriusXM Traffic"? Perhaps there is better information, but it looks like they are not updating the Nav system. According to their website (Uconnect | Navigation | SiriusXM Traffic Information), they provide "Alerts on major accidents, construction and road closings." "Alerts" seems like real-time feature to help you while driving, and NOT an update that can be used to plan your trip or give you information about new routes. In addition, it looks like that is $200 per year.

Although everyone seems to be arguing the cost, to me that's not really a huge issue when compared to using a tool which does not include updated information. Right now, I'm leaning towards an external Nav system as the more usable tool. Am I missing something?

Regards,

Dan.
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  #64  
Old 08-22-2013, 05:08 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Dan_public View Post
Hi. I'm new here and looking at a 2014 Cherokee (Limited or Trailhawk). The number of possible options and combinations of options is a bit overwhelming. One of them is uConnect - including the pluses and minuses of the built in Nav system.

Before someone posts a condescending comment like, "Do your homework", know that I have done my homework and still have open questions.

For my needs, built-in Nav would be great and I have NO problem spending an extra $800 for it. That is, IF it is a safe, usable tool. A safe usable tool means that the maps are updated. If the maps aren't updated, it's a toy and could be a dangerous toy if it gives you invalid information. I have no interest in spending $800 for a toy, dangerous or otherwise.

From this thread it appears that there are two ways of updating the information - through map update or through the "SiriusXM Traffic" feature.

The map update looks very expensive at $150 per update. That seems unreasonably high given that current standards for GPS devices and software are to provide free map updates. However...

The bigger issue is the frequency of map update. The current standard for GPS hardware and software is updated maps every few months.

When I checked the uConnect website for the Grand Cherokee, it shows that the last model year for which they have an update is 2012 - two years old. Not acceptable.

So what about "SiriusXM Traffic"? Perhaps there is better information, but it looks like they are not updating the Nav system. According to their website (Uconnect | Navigation | SiriusXM Traffic Information), they provide "Alerts on major accidents, construction and road closings." "Alerts" seems like real-time feature to help you while driving, and NOT an update that can be used to plan your trip or give you information about new routes. In addition, it looks like that is $200 per year.

Although everyone seems to be arguing the cost, to me that's not really a huge issue when compared to using a tool which does not include updated information. Right now, I'm leaning towards an external Nav system as the more usable tool. Am I missing something?

Regards,

Dan.
I can offer only my opinion on this matter, as you do make the fare arguement about it being a "safe usable tool".

I had been stationed and living in Germany for a year and a half and had to resort to utilizing GPS to get around to my American tourist destinations. I had to go with european exclusive mapping on a Navigon and When I first bought it, I updated it and then after that I didn't do it once.

The autobahn is CONSTANTLY under construction but there was never an issue on where I was going, and if there was (due to construction) then it would re-route me to my destination shortly. With internal NAV I think that it's an easier process to re-route your detour thus making it a less stressful scenario when lost.

The great feature about the latest uConnect is that it includes WiFi! I don't know the full details about how it will update your maps (maybe ask/try it with a 2014 GC that has the same 8.4") but I can imagine you would be able to manually update it in that manner.

I don't go on cross-state ventures too often but when I do, I expect to get lost a little bit. I don't think I will update my maps any more than biennially, and I am from outside of Baltimore where they supposedly just finished the upgrade sections of I-95 and I-695... for now...

I hope this helps! I wish I could hop in one and start breaking it trying to figure out the WiFi update myself!
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  #65  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:17 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by jtdelisio View Post
I can offer only my opinion on this matter, as you do make the fare arguement about it being a "safe usable tool".

I had been stationed and living in Germany for a year and a half and had to resort to utilizing GPS to get around to my American tourist destinations. I had to go with european exclusive mapping on a Navigon and When I first bought it, I updated it and then after that I didn't do it once.

The autobahn is CONSTANTLY under construction but there was never an issue on where I was going, and if there was (due to construction) then it would re-route me to my destination shortly. With internal NAV I think that it's an easier process to re-route your detour thus making it a less stressful scenario when lost.

The great feature about the latest uConnect is that it includes WiFi! I don't know the full details about how it will update your maps (maybe ask/try it with a 2014 GC that has the same 8.4") but I can imagine you would be able to manually update it in that manner.

I don't go on cross-state ventures too often but when I do, I expect to get lost a little bit. I don't think I will update my maps any more than biennially, and I am from outside of Baltimore where they supposedly just finished the upgrade sections of I-95 and I-695... for now...

I hope this helps! I wish I could hop in one and start breaking it trying to figure out the WiFi update myself!
jtdelisio,

Like you, when I saw the WIFI service, my eyes lit up. Then I saw the price - $35/month. Maybe I'm misreading this, but that's what I see on: Uconnect® Access | The next generation of connectivity has arrived.
Many phones have what's called "tethering". It's typically an extra charge, but it's usually less that $35/month.

As I mentioned above, the upfront cost doesn't bother me. The on-going cost concern me a but, but ultimately the maps have to be correct. I'm open on methodology, but accuracy is what counts.

Regards,

Dan.
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  #66  
Old 08-23-2013, 06:19 AM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Dan_public View Post
jtdelisio,

Like you, when I saw the WIFI service, my eyes lit up. Then I saw the price - $35/month. Maybe I'm misreading this, but that's what I see on: Uconnect® Access | The next generation of connectivity has arrived.
Many phones have what's called "tethering". It's typically an extra charge, but it's usually less that $35/month.

As I mentioned above, the upfront cost doesn't bother me. The on-going cost concern me a but, but ultimately the maps have to be correct. I'm open on methodology, but accuracy is what counts.

Regards,

Dan.
$35 a month is ridiculous. I am with you. No thanks.
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  #67  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:49 AM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

You can always create a WiFi hotspot with your cellphone and utilize it that way. (But with bandwidth fees in America, no thanks!) 35$ for internet isn't too bad but for now that's one gadget in the car I can live without.

I still don't know if you can update your maps through WiFi, but I assume with the continuous evolution of technology that the most accurate GPS systems will be the latest. I also think that the antenna used with internal systems assist with accuracy.
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  #68  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:34 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Dan_public View Post
jtdelisio,
Like you, when I saw the WIFI service, my eyes lit up. Then I saw the price - $35/month. Maybe I'm misreading this, but that's what I see on: Uconnect® Access | The next generation of connectivity has arrived.
Many phones have what's called "tethering". It's typically an extra charge, but it's usually less that $35/month.
As I understand this payment for whole features, such as remote start, remote horn, etc? I'm wrong?

P.S. In our country Internet access unlimited traffic with no speed limit less than $15 via 3G/4G...
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  #69  
Old 08-24-2013, 08:57 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Shiva View Post
As I understand this payment for whole features, such as remote start, remote horn, etc? I'm wrong?

P.S. In our country Internet access unlimited traffic with no speed limit less than $15 via 3G/4G...
Shiva,

AFAIK, there are two costs. The first is a one time cost. The second is a monthly or yearly cost that provides the service necessary to make it work and/or keep it up to date.

The one-time cost and content of features like remote start, remote horn, etc. are pretty well documented. Most importantly, they don't have any recurring cost. OTOH, features like Nav and WIFI have a one-tme cost AND a recurring cost.

The recurring cost is fuzzy and not clearly documented. For example, what do I need to pay to keep the UConnect Nav up to date? What is the precise cost, what do I get, and what are the limitations?

Some people insist that they traffic alerts update the Nav and provide all you need for day-to-day accurate use. At this point, I'm not convinced. To-date, no one has been able to clearly define how the Nav can be kept up to date other than buying a map update for $150 when they become available - something like every one to two years.

The bottom line is that a Nav which is not up to date is an expensive toy.

Regards,

Dan.
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  #70  
Old 08-24-2013, 09:12 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Dan_public View Post
Shiva,

Some people insist that they traffic alerts update the Nav and provide all you need for day-to-day accurate use. At this point, I'm not convinced. To-date, no one has been able to clearly define how the Nav can be kept up to date other than buying a map update for $150 when they become available - something like every one to two years.


Dan.
You are correct, there are no Over the Air updates for NAV.... The System was never designed to do the 2.5-3.5Gig updates needed for the Garmin Based Nav Map file.... However, the Database will be the same across all CDJ product and I ** Believe ** they are looking to make it more cost effective. If that means giving a free update refresh which they have certainly done in the past, they may do so or they may offer them at more reasonable pricing.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:12 AM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Dan_public View Post
The one-time cost and content of features like remote start, remote horn, etc. are pretty well documented. Most importantly, they don't have any recurring cost.
.
I can't confirm, but don't think that's right. You're describing features provided by UConnect. Their site Uconnect® Access | The next generation of connectivity has arrived says:

"Jeep UConnect provides features like start your engine, unlock your door or flash your headlights—from almost anywhere. Just send a remote command from your computer or smartphone<SUP title="Vehicle must be registered for Uconnect® Access and you must fulfill minimum subscription requirements. It must also be equipped with features that enable remote commands, such as keyless entry, and must be in active and usable cellular range. The Uconnect® Access App must be installed and launched on your mobile phone to use these remote commands." class=tooltip>+</SUP> using the Uconnect® Access app."

Many other places on the web I find this: "Pricing: Uconnect Access enabled vehicles come with a 6- to 12-month free trial. Post-trial pricing will be announced later this year. Unlocking the 3G Wi-Fi hotspot function costs either $9.99 per day, $19.99 per week, or $34.99 per month."

So we know what the hotspot costs (and know that it's far slower than our 4G phones), and it looks like there's a subscription for the cellular capability to use UConnect but we don't know what it costs.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:55 PM
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Re: 8.4 questions?

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
You are correct, there are no Over the Air updates for NAV.... The System was never designed to do the 2.5-3.5Gig updates needed for the Garmin Based Nav Map file.... However, the Database will be the same across all CDJ product and I ** Believe ** they are looking to make it more cost effective. If that means giving a free update refresh which they have certainly done in the past, they may do so or they may offer them at more reasonable pricing.
Willx,

The issue at hand is "...no Over the Air updates for NAV.... The System was never designed to do...". There is a paradigm shift going on and car companies (virtually all of them) are fighting it. If they give me a free update, they are completely missing the point. The current expensive, in-car nav system that goes out of date quickly will be a thing of the past within five years. And the industry already knows this...

I found this very interesting article in Bloomberg news: IPhones Stuck to Windshields Threaten Dashboard Maps - Bloomberg. The article talks about the shift away from dashboard Navs like the Uconnect. The chief technology office of GM (who runs OnStar) found that his sons were using iPhones Nav software suction-cupped to the windshield.

From the article...
Quote:
Meanwhile, 47 percent of car owners told J.D. Power they used a map app on their mobile phone while driving last year, up from 37 percent in 2011. And 46 percent of car owners with a factory-installed navigation system said they wouldn’t buy one again if their smartphone app could play on their dashboard screen.
Adding Nav to a car is profitable business for car companies. They don't want to lose that profit. But...
Quote:
Consumers get frustrated when they take ownership of their vehicle that map data can be up to a year-and-a-half old or more. It’s very frustrating for somebody to search for something they know is there and the map can’t find it.
Smartphones + software are not perfect, but...
Quote:
Cars have a stronger GPS connection and larger display screen. Phone apps have the latest maps and users providing real-time traffic updates.
The problem is that car companies are swimming upstream in a river that is going the opposite way. Many companies in many industries have tried that and always fail in the long run.

And then there is the packaging. It irritates me me that Jeep forces you to buy the RA4 package if you want the 9 powered speakers + subwoofer package. So your speakers effectively cost $1,200.

Irritated customers search for other alternatives. I'll probably still buy the Cherokee, but I'm inclined to use a smartphone or tablet + nav software, or a hardware nav (like Garmin) instead of a pricey, car-specific nav which will go out of date quickly. And I'll be looking for better speakers elsewhere.

Regards,

Dan.
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