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  #49  
Old 09-21-2013, 04:42 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
Wrong Thread.... this Thread is the new Cherokee (KL Body)

Completely different vehicle.
I understand that. I was responding to his comments that most vehicles have these things happen then he said probably the one I am currently driving. I completely understand the difference between the two vehicles.
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  #50  
Old 09-21-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post

I understand that. I was responding to his comments that most vehicles have these things happen then he said probably the one I am currently driving. I completely understand the difference between the two vehicles.
Ah yes I see,

On that note, I can agree, adjustment of a transmission input shaft is a little major. I have seen NO major adjustment of this type recently.

Thank you for the clarification the point makes sense.
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  #51  
Old 09-21-2013, 05:05 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
Ah yes I see,

On that note, I can agree, adjustment of a transmission input shaft is a little major. I have seen NO major adjustment of this type recently.

Thank you for the clarification the point makes sense.
Agreed. Maybe I should have chosen the word "maybe" instead of "probably."

I'm sure you're a great guy and all JP, but people that do similar things like sharpshoot everything a guy says make it hard for a person to enjoy being a part of a group.

And the 2014 Grand's have also been out for a few months. We have worked on at least a dozen of the early units. and still have updates for one that just came in last week.

Maybe I'll have to find a new place to hang out now.
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  #52  
Old 09-21-2013, 05:30 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

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Originally Posted by Conejo148 View Post
Agreed. Maybe I should have chosen the word "maybe" instead of "probably."

I'm sure you're a great guy and all JP, but people that do similar things like sharpshoot everything a guy says make it hard for a person to enjoy being a part of a group.

And the 2014 Grand's have also been out for a few months. We have worked on at least a dozen of the early units. and still have updates for one that just came in last week.

Maybe I'll have to find a new place to hang out now.
The only point I was making is that there is a big difference between a software update and a major mechanical repair. I was also making a point that it is good chrysler is taking care of the issue before shipping. When you say they should just ship and at the dealer level they can take care of it later with a tsb that to me is not a good idea. That sounds like the old way of doing business when there was not all these other manufactures to compete with. I know you want them on the lot so you can sell them but wouldn't you like the customer to have a perfect vehicle so that they come back for another one?
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  #53  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:48 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
The only point I was making is that there is a big difference between a software update and a major mechanical repair. I was also making a point that it is good chrysler is taking care of the issue before shipping. When you say they should just ship and at the dealer level they can take care of it later with a tsb that to me is not a good idea. That sounds like the old way of doing business when there was not all these other manufactures to compete with. I know you want them on the lot so you can sell them but wouldn't you like the customer to have a perfect vehicle so that they come back for another one?
I just got home from 12 hours on the lot...that said

Which items cost more, generally speaking--Mass produced, or hand made?
Hand made, right? Keep this in mind for the next minute or so.

I initially stated that the problem would be corrected before any vehicles were delivered to a customer, no matter the issue. I also stated that I was told it would be a dealer fix. That wasn't my suggestion, it was the factory's decision. They are not going to re-ship all of the units staged at the various marshalling yards back to T-Town.

Since there are obvious sightings of these things roaming around various parts of the country, it's apparent that not all of the units have the same problem. Given the emphasis placed on quality today, there is no way a unit would be shipped for demo unless it was 100%. I say today because the Daimler partnership was a nightmare - why else was there a lifetime warranty? It may have been pitched as a way to back up quality, but it was because the factory knew there would be long term problems, and hoped that the original owners would be out of the car before then, which was based on market studies that show the avg. driver trades every 39 months.

In the 2000's, the truck transmissions sucked, steering problems on everything, and the Stratus/Sebring "relaunches" were so bad that the names were dropped in the same manner as you would erase a bastard stepchild from the family records.

So now, with Fiat, the emphasis is on quality. Sergio borrowed almost $6 billion at 19% to fix what Daimler gutted. Still, out of an inventory of over 500 CJD's, we have 54 with active service bulletins ranging anywhere from a stereo reprogram to oil cooler tube replacements, and one 2014 Durango R/T that needs new brake caliper bolts.

Regardless of whether the issues are fixed by wrench or by laptop, they are all done by a technician...not a robot on an assembly line. Did anyone know that the first delay was caused by improper door welds? Probably not..but a set of properly trained human eyes caught the problem. Those got fixed by hand, too. No, you won't be able to tell because a pretty experienced tech made a nifty welding jig...a lot of them.

Now I ask, would you rather have a robot fix the problem, or a live being with 500 hours or more of hands-on training in Auburn Hills? And besides, the fix is reportedly not a major repair, it a flywheel replacement. Four bolts or so on the inspection plate, and three in the flywheel. Or it could still just be a software flash to make up for a tighter than expected engineering tolerance. Either way it will be done at the dealership.

I sincerely apologize if my reply comes across as a little heavy-handed, but I also spend an hour driving each way to work and today came home to a pregnant wife waching & cursing as UM is getting beat by UCONN on ABC..she likes the team "Up North," and I went to Ohio State to boot. If it doesn't make sense, then pretend she likes FJ Cruisers or Range Rovers and I like our beloved Jeeps. Actually, that's not fair to Toyota or Range Rover. A Geo Tracker...that works.
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  #54  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:29 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conejo148 View Post
I just got home from 12 hours on the lot...that said

Which items cost more, generally speaking--Mass produced, or hand made?
Hand made, right? Keep this in mind for the next minute or so.

I initially stated that the problem would be corrected before any vehicles were delivered to a customer, no matter the issue. I also stated that I was told it would be a dealer fix. That wasn't my suggestion, it was the factory's decision. They are not going to re-ship all of the units staged at the various marshalling yards back to T-Town.

Since there are obvious sightings of these things roaming around various parts of the country, it's apparent that not all of the units have the same problem. Given the emphasis placed on quality today, there is no way a unit would be shipped for demo unless it was 100%. I say today because the Daimler partnership was a nightmare - why else was there a lifetime warranty? It may have been pitched as a way to back up quality, but it was because the factory knew there would be long term problems, and hoped that the original owners would be out of the car before then, which was based on market studies that show the avg. driver trades every 39 months.

In the 2000's, the truck transmissions sucked, steering problems on everything, and the Stratus/Sebring "relaunches" were so bad that the names were dropped in the same manner as you would erase a bastard stepchild from the family records.

So now, with Fiat, the emphasis is on quality. Sergio borrowed almost $6 billion at 19% to fix what Daimler gutted. Still, out of an inventory of over 500 CJD's, we have 54 with active service bulletins ranging anywhere from a stereo reprogram to oil cooler tube replacements, and one 2014 Durango R/T that needs new brake caliper bolts.

Regardless of whether the issues are fixed by wrench or by laptop, they are all done by a technician...not a robot on an assembly line. Did anyone know that the first delay was caused by improper door welds? Probably not..but a set of properly trained human eyes caught the problem. Those got fixed by hand, too. No, you won't be able to tell because a pretty experienced tech made a nifty welding jig...a lot of them.

Now I ask, would you rather have a robot fix the problem, or a live being with 500 hours or more of hands-on training in Auburn Hills? And besides, the fix is reportedly not a major repair, it a flywheel replacement. Four bolts or so on the inspection plate, and three in the flywheel. Or it could still just be a software flash to make up for a tighter than expected engineering tolerance. Either way it will be done at the dealership.

I sincerely apologize if my reply comes across as a little heavy-handed, but I also spend an hour driving each way to work and today came home to a pregnant wife waching & cursing as UM is getting beat by UCONN on ABC..she likes the team "Up North," and I went to Ohio State to boot. If it doesn't make sense, then pretend she likes FJ Cruisers or Range Rovers and I like our beloved Jeeps. Actually, that's not fair to Toyota or Range Rover. A Geo Tracker...that works.
I understand where your coming from and I can completely understand and a minor repair would be no big deal. I was only making the point that if it's something major tearing a vehicle apart is not something I would want. I remember a couple years ago or less Chrysler had a recall for a couple weeks of production on 3.6 engines which required replacing the engine. Most of those vehicle were not sold yet when the recall came out and they had to label them as having had the engine replaced and I believe they gave an extra thousand off for buying one. I know because I was buying a 2012 at the time and the dealer had one that they could not sell and they were trying to sell me on it. So my only point was yes I know there are tsb's I have had a couple done on my 2014 for minor things, but when you get into major things that's something else. So this is the last I will say on this because this had turned into way more that I intended. I hope they are out soon and I think it will do well.
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  #55  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:26 AM
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Conejo,

One thing we continuously are missing here and you will see many people complain about is the complete lack of knowledge and enthusiasm about the product at the dealer level. It is a good sign of your character that you not only defend your position but also with some facts. You certainly will come across some anti-Chrysler attitude here (JP is not one of them) and it is refreshing to see your positive outlook... please don't let that fail you in the face of a disagreement elsewhere in this forum.

I do think with some of the problems that have taken place, that people do forget the amount of time and money Fiat has put into this turn around. Also that numerous companies failed to do (including Mercedes) what Fiat has been successful at and that is improving all aspects at Chrysler. I believe there is a ways to go but my past manufacturer experience tells me Chrysler is trying harder as a group than almost all others right now and that is good for us future owners.

Will,
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  #56  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:59 AM
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Enthusiasm

I have never sold cars (except my own) and do not really know if dealers invest much time on training them but I do recognize good salesmen.
The sales(person) who talks with knowledge about the car is great. It really reflects badly on dealers when goobs come out to talk.
I also understand that their livelihood is based on what is on the lot or within dealer trade inventory, so I don't try to hang around a dealership and talk about Cherokees, which apparently will only be in some dealers by the end of the month.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

Thanks Willx, and no hard feelings to JP..it was a long day. Sad as it is, many (sales)people just throw there hands up and give in, or start getting aggressive in their defense when they feel like they're losing. I have degrees in both Military History & Business Admin, on top of probably 500+ hours of sales seminars like Ziglar, Covey, and Joe Verde. Patience is my friend and sincerity it my ally. We also have to maintain a Chrysler certified training status if we want to get spiffed from the factory..which is anywhere from $10 to $80 per unit. The money adds up, so important to me to stay on top of stuff. A lot of people just blow through 'em though, saying the same old things they've been saying for years.

On a brighter note, it is rumored that we will FINALLY be receiving our first Cherokee(s) (one or two) this week. Directly from the Production Manager's mouth there have been NONE delivered to a dealer for sale yet, but he didn't confirm or deny if anything shipped out yet. His words indicated that everything is still sitting off of I-75 until they get the issue straightened out. So if you're close to T-Town and one to check one out in the flesh, I'll be posting when it hits.
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  #58  
Old 09-24-2013, 01:37 AM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conejo148 View Post
Thanks Willx, and no hard feelings to JP..it was a long day. Sad as it is, many (sales)people just throw there hands up and give in, or start getting aggressive in their defense when they feel like they're losing. I have degrees in both Military History & Business Admin, on top of probably 500+ hours of sales seminars like Ziglar, Covey, and Joe Verde. Patience is my friend and sincerity it my ally. We also have to maintain a Chrysler certified training status if we want to get spiffed from the factory..which is anywhere from $10 to $80 per unit. The money adds up, so important to me to stay on top of stuff. A lot of people just blow through 'em though, saying the same old things they've been saying for years.

On a brighter note, it is rumored that we will FINALLY be receiving our first Cherokee(s) (one or two) this week. Directly from the Production Manager's mouth there have been NONE delivered to a dealer for sale yet, but he didn't confirm or deny if anything shipped out yet. His words indicated that everything is still sitting off of I-75 until they get the issue straightened out. So if you're close to T-Town and one to check one out in the flesh, I'll be posting when it hits.

Thanks and there is no hard feelings. I think I was getting the wrong impression of what you were trying to say and that's my fault. I just would like to see them do well and be trouble free. I know you mentioned the early 14 Grand's having some issues, but I will say that my 2014 Overland is as early( built in Feb) and its been trouble free so far.
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  #59  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:30 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

So it's now Friday...and 56 of our Cherokees are still in a lot near the intersection of the Jeep & Willys Parkways. Seriously. Google-map it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:33 PM
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Re: Are dealers ordering these?

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So it's now Friday...and 56 of our Cherokees are still in a lot near the intersection of the Jeep & Willys Parkways. Seriously. Google-map it.

Already have. My TH is sitting in the Train yard south of the plant waiting for release.
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