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  #37  
Old 05-25-2013, 06:20 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by Q Tech View Post
sometimes it's best to just nod and smile
Why, because I disagree with you?
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2013, 06:27 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by gvsmitty19 View Post
Sorry, wasn't trying to knock your ride. I do like the exterior look of the Patriots. Just passing along my observations and the trends I've been reading about. I just did a quick search in my area and found a Certified 2012 Latitude 4x4 fully loaded with sunroof with 11k miles for $19,000 being offered by a local dealer. Some serious depreciation there.

I hope you are right about the Cherokee prices being reasonable!
I didn't take it that you were knocking my vehicle. No harm no foul. I don't take it personal when the topic sticks to the cars and avoids commenting on the poster.

I just looked up average retail( dealer price )for a CPO 2012 Patriot Latitude, 4WD, 11,000, loaded w/ sunroof for my area and came up with...

KBB = $22, 200
NADA = $23,700

19K sounds a bit low for a loaded model w/ sunroof. Regional demand for vehicles does vary so price would as well.
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:19 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
Why, because I disagree with you?
No. Because you have now more than once made the argument that a midsize SUV shouldn't cost more than X amount because you could get a full sized truck for X amount. That just doesn't make much sense. I could get lots of different things for 35k. Example I could get 35000 Mac doubles, would this in turn indicate that the Cherokee is clearly overpriced? of course it would not because the two are unrelated just as you FS truck to MS SUV comparison is unrelated. Maybe you use a different method than most when you shop for a vehicle like just wondering around aimlessly from lot to lot jumping from compact hybrids then into tow rigs then over to midsize SUV's back to mopeds then to monster trucks until you find what suits your fancy. If thats what works for you then that's great I suppose. Some of us have a list of needs and wants for the vehicle that we purchase and we tend to find that with a segment therefore when cost comparisons are made they tend to be made within that segment.

Obviously I have exaggerated the situation in the interest of clarification. Hopefully it helped. If not I'll just go back to,
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2013, 05:38 PM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by Q Tech View Post
No. Because you have now more than once made the argument that a midsize SUV shouldn't cost more than X amount because you could get a full sized truck for X amount. That just doesn't make much sense. I could get lots of different things for 35k. Example I could get 35000 Mac doubles, would this in turn indicate that the Cherokee is clearly overpriced? of course it would not because the two are unrelated just as you FS truck to MS SUV comparison is unrelated. Maybe you use a different method than most when you shop for a vehicle like just wondering around aimlessly from lot to lot jumping from compact hybrids then into tow rigs then over to midsize SUV's back to mopeds then to monster trucks until you find what suits your fancy. If thats what works for you then that's great I suppose. Some of us have a list of needs and wants for the vehicle that we purchase and we tend to find that with a segment therefore when cost comparisons are made they tend to be made within that segment.

Obviously I have exaggerated the situation in the interest of clarification. Hopefully it helped. If not I'll just go back to,
You are still missing the point. It takes more "stuff" to make a full sized truck than a small suv so to charge as much for that small suv is crazy. Comparing hamburger cost to vehicle cost makes no sense. Comparing vehicle cost to vehicle cost makes plenty of sense even if different types.

A car is still a car. They use the same basic materials and they are built the same way. They all have an engine, 4 wheels, a transmission, electronics, etc... There is not going to be anything so vastly new and technically superior on the Cherokee that would justify such a price tag so I don't see how you can not see what I am saying? If a full sized loaded Ram can be sold for $35-$40K how on earth can that same price for a small suv like the Cherokee be justified? The sum total of the parts for the Cherokee vs that same sum total of the parts for a Ram can not be equal so the MSRP should not be as well.

I haven't seen anything about the new Cherokee to justify such a high price? What is so all fire special on the new Cherokee, even a trailhawk, that would make $40K for one a good deal? I am dumbfounded that people think that price point is good?

This isn't about need or segment or anything like that. It is about cost. $35-$40K for the new Cherokee is just plain too high. At least for me. I couldn't justify that expense for such a small vehicle even if it fit every need and desire I had( which btw is very important to me when vehicle shopping but so is value for my dollar ).

I don't know how else to say it? A new Cherokee should not cost anywhere near what a new Ram( or a new Grand Cherokee as another example )does. If it ends up being that high Jeep is way over pricing them and IMO they will fail with it for that reason. It will be similar to why the new Dart hasn't done as well as expected. Great little car but too expensive( 90% of the negatives I hear is the price tag is too high for what it is ).
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  #41  
Old 05-25-2013, 06:29 PM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
You are still missing the point. It takes more "stuff" to make a full sized truck than a small suv so to charge as much for that small suv is crazy. Comparing hamburger cost to vehicle cost makes no sense. Comparing vehicle cost to vehicle cost makes plenty of sense even if different types.

A car is still a car. They use the same basic materials and they are built the same way. They all have an engine, 4 wheels, a transmission, electronics, etc... There is not going to be anything so vastly new and technically superior on the Cherokee that would justify such a price tag so I don't see how you can not see what I am saying? If a full sized loaded Ram can be sold for $35-$40K how on earth can that same price for a small suv like the Cherokee be justified? The sum total of the parts for the Cherokee vs that same sum total of the parts for a Ram can not be equal so the MSRP should not be as well.

I haven't seen anything about the new Cherokee to justify such a high price? What is so all fire special on the new Cherokee, even a trailhawk, that would make $40K for one a good deal? I am dumbfounded that people think that price point is good?

This isn't about need or segment or anything like that. It is about cost. $35-$40K for the new Cherokee is just plain too high. At least for me. I couldn't justify that expense for such a small vehicle even if it fit every need and desire I had( which btw is very important to me when vehicle shopping but so is value for my dollar ).

I don't know how else to say it? A new Cherokee should not cost anywhere near what a new Ram( or a new Grand Cherokee as another example )does. If it ends up being that high Jeep is way over pricing them and IMO they will fail with it for that reason. It will be similar to why the new Dart hasn't done as well as expected. Great little car but too expensive( 90% of the negatives I hear is the price tag is too high for what it is ).
if you actually believe that companies a price in your product purely based on would it cost them to produce it you are living in a fantasy world. Companies will charge what they think the market will bear. Gas prices are a prime example of this. No matter what technologies exist no matter what the demand is we will always paid the absolute maximum that the big oil companies think the market will bear. I'm sure the brainiacs at Chrysler have done a number of studies based on who they think they're target buyers for this product will be and how much those buyers can handle in terms of price I believe that this in this alone will dictate the price of the product. However, this does not guarantee the said brainiacs will get it right or that the product will be a homerun.
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  #42  
Old 05-25-2013, 07:01 PM
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My opinion is that the value of a vehicle is based on a consumers perception of the value. If a buyer believes the cost of an item is "worth it" then the object is of value. Buyers have emotions that toy with what "they" believe the value is. One may have a different idea of what value is based on their emotion or buying criteria. This is why one believes that a product is "of value" and another believes it is not.
I also think that when buying a vehicle you could have criteria that spans segments. In this case the criteria could be "4 wheel drive, seats 5, navigation, and gas mileage is greater than 18". In this case there are hundreds of vehicles across multiple segments that would qualify. Apply the value proposition to this equation.

Just my two cents...
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  #43  
Old 05-26-2013, 12:52 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

I see all this talk about what its going to cost. If you want the answer just look at the ford escape. Its going to compete directly with the escape so I would expect the pricing to be very close.
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  #44  
Old 05-26-2013, 12:56 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
I really don't agree. I got a LOT of vehicle for a little money by today's standards with my Patriot. It isn't lacking many features and the build quallity is as good as the competition. A top of the line Patriot with just about everything offered is only going to set you back what an Equinox, Pilot, Rav4, etc... start out at or moderate ones at worst.

Also, I am sorry but depreciation is not as bad as you talk of. Not around here anyway. I just looked up my vehicle's approx value( KBB and NADA )and it is $20,500-$23,400 depending on which condition in KBB you would agree on and/or which value guide you go by. It was less than $25K new. That isn't a lot of depreciation.

Jeep already has an expensive top of the line SUV in the Grand Cherokee. To price the smaller regular Cherokee in the same ball park is ludicrous. Sorry but I just don't understand people wanting it to be so expensive and seeming to be ok with it?

The Cherokee is supposed to be a small suv that replaces the Liberty. The Liberty was over priced but at the least the new Cherokee should be in the same approx price range. As I said $26K-$28K for a decent 4WD.

The new Cherokee is more advanced than the Patrriot and I fully expect to pay more for it. However, it should not cost as much as a Grand Cherokee nor a full sized 4WD truck. That is just way too expensive and IMO will really hurt sales.

I am actually very interested in the new Cherokee but if it sets me back more than $28K MAX for a decent 4WD version they can keep it. Now by decent I don't mean leather, sunroof, etc... I am not talking loaded. Basic power, AC, cruise, 6 cyl. Hopefully a nav system too( I might go $29K max with nav but would be very hesitant ).

What it costs to make has nothing to do with it. Its what the market value is. Its like a house, what it costs to build the house does not have anything to do with market value. To your question though yes I would expect that you will be able to get something well equipped in the 28K range and fully loaded in the low to mid 30's
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:29 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
What it costs to make has nothing to do with it. Its what the market value is. Its like a house, what it costs to build the house does not have anything to do with market value.
I actually agree with you. I am merely stating that I wouldn't pay that because it would be over priced and commenting on what it "should" cost. If the market will bear it, and apparantly it will from what I am reading here, $40K for a loaded one may be what it runs? It "shouldn't" though. The Dart is a good example of over pricing a vehicle and having people walk away.
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  #46  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:38 AM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

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Originally Posted by Q Tech View Post
if you actually believe that companies a price in your product purely based on would it cost them to produce it you are living in a fantasy world. Companies will charge what they think the market will bear. Gas prices are a prime example of this. No matter what technologies exist no matter what the demand is we will always paid the absolute maximum that the big oil companies think the market will bear. I'm sure the brainiacs at Chrysler have done a number of studies based on who they think they're target buyers for this product will be and how much those buyers can handle in terms of price I believe that this in this alone will dictate the price of the product. However, this does not guarantee the said brainiacs will get it right or that the product will be a homerun.
See my post above.

At this point with no idea what the price will actually be everyone is speculating. All I can do is have a price range in my head that I feel the vehicle should be sold in based on what it is. That sure isn't $35-$40K when I can go buy a full sized, 4WD, HEMI powered, Ram that is loaded for that price. Yes, I know, it is a different vehicle type but none the less a new Cherokee, that is a small suv, "shouldn't" run at the same price levels.

Yes, demand will drive the price more than cost. As I said above however it "shouldn't" run $35-$40K for one as that will be over pricing it and I don't believe it needs to be that high for a profit. Again, see the new Dart and it's failure related to pricing.

EDIT - I just priced an Escape out like I would want and was floored to have it hit $30K. So maybe you guys are right that $35-$40K will be the cost for a loaded new Cherokee. That is crazy though.
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2013, 01:46 PM
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Re: Jeep Cherokee Questions

This line of comparison is flawed. It sounds like you're matching up a base RAM 1500 with a fully loaded Cherokee Limited. You either need to compare a base Cherokee Sport or a loaded up RAM.

I just priced a RAM 1500 Sport 4x4 online with the same relative options a loaded Limited should have. Still doesn't have active park assist, adaptive cruise control, etc. It's $46K. I'm guessing a Limited with every option is $38K max and that probably a $33K vehicle with 5K worth of options.

Or compare a $30K base RAM with a $23K base Cherokee. $7-8K difference either way.

Regardless, no one is cross shopping these. It's an absurd argument. Any relatively refined vehicle with the performance and comprehensive set of features and options that a loaded Cherokee Limited will posess is $36K or higher in price. Even a comparible Kia Sorento is $38K and doesn't as much technology.

If you're shopping for a large truck for utility only, buy a base RAM 1500. Seems like a great value.
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  #48  
Old 05-26-2013, 03:06 PM
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I think people speculating that it will be in line with the cr-v and escape are spot on. The cherokee also needs to slot in lower than the Grand Cherokee or many may skip up market to the larger and better equipped Jeep. GC starts at $29790 but can't be optioned up without going up trim to at least a limited, which really jumps the price.
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