Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #1285  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:54 PM
1973Commando's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Land O' Lakes, FL
Posts: 600
Thanks: 33
Thanked 32 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 1470
1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milous View Post
Euro spec sheet:
Electronic direct injection, 1,800-bar common-rail, MultiJet II technology

USA spec sheet:
Common-rail, 2000 bar, Solenoid Injectors

Willx, the PDF you attached said: "The MultiJet II technology features a special
balanced solenoid valve in each injector."

From Milous' post above I assumed "MultiJet II technology" in the Euro Spec Sheet was different from the "Solenoid Injectors" in the USA spec sheet.

So the Only thing really different is the pressure. They both use the 2nd generation Bosch CRS2 injection system.

Really, just trying to express my confusion at this point.

Also in the Product brief it says: "Precise fuel delivery is through a high-pressure(up to 29,000 psi) common-rail fuel-injection system fitted with new-generation, 2,000-bar injectors featuring MultiJet II technology..."

If it is the "NEW" generation I would have assume they meant the "NEWEST" generation, but, I guess not.
__________________

__________________
______________________________________
My Jeep:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 | Black, Inside and Out
5.7 liter HEMI | ORAII | Advanced Technology Package(w/ stop)

Reply With Quote
  #1286  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Willx's Avatar
Moderator - MOTS jr.


My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4,835
Thanks: 526
Thanked 816 Times in 458 Posts
Rep Power: 1926935
Willx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: 2014 diesel production

Yes, that is the actual quote where Milous correct me in somthing I was discussing. That is why I remembered it was Solenoid and kept the spec sheet. As I recieved that spec sheet around the same times the engines arrived at the factory, I am assuming it is still Solenoid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973Commando View Post
Willx, the PDF you attached said: "The MultiJet II technology features a special
balanced solenoid valve in each injector."

From Milous' post above I assumed "MultiJet II technology" in the Euro Spec Sheet was different from the "Solenoid Injectors" in the USA spec sheet.

So the Only thing really different is the pressure. They both use a 2nd generation Bosch CRS2 injection system.

Really, just trying to express my confusion at this point.

Also in the Product brief it says: "Precise fuel delivery is through a high-pressure(up to 29,000 psi) common-rail fuel-injection system fitted with new-generation, 2,000-bar injectors featuring MultiJet II technology..."

If it is the "NEW" generation I would have assume they meant "latest" generation, but, I guess not.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1287  
Old 08-10-2013, 10:15 PM
1973Commando's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Land O' Lakes, FL
Posts: 600
Thanks: 33
Thanked 32 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 1470
1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willx View Post
Yes, that is the actual quote where Milous correct me in somthing I was discussing. That is why I remembered it was Solenoid and kept the spec sheet. As I recieved that spec sheet around the same times the engines arrived at the factory, I am assuming it is still Solenoid.
My point about that is: it sounded to me like the USA spec was not MultiJet II from what Milous post said. While the product brief said it was MultiJet II.

I'm still not convinced either way whether they are piezo or solenoid.
Because they said "New-generation" and also the photos in the brief look more like the piezo injectors, I am still not sure. And also the Diesel Power Magazine article is still in the back of my head that clearly says it has piezo injectors.

I will drop them a note to get clarification.

The only difference between the two systems are the actual injectors, all of the other parts of the system are the same including the "EDC17 control unit".

I don't know what reason there would be to use the older Solenoid injectors versus the newer piezo injectors.

I know Bosch is hiring a lot of people to make these injection systems in the US. I will try to ask them to get a definitive answer. (Or one that I consider definitive anyway.)
__________________
______________________________________
My Jeep:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 | Black, Inside and Out
5.7 liter HEMI | ORAII | Advanced Technology Package(w/ stop)

Reply With Quote
  #1288  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:25 AM
Milous's Avatar
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nottsure, Wair
Posts: 6,215
Thanks: 33
Thanked 1,780 Times in 803 Posts
Rep Power: 2392103
Milous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond reputeMilous has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

Emission Standards
T2B5 (NAFTA)

Injector Opening Pressure
230 Bar (3,335 psi)

Injection Pressure
2000 Bar (29,008 psi)

Injection Pump
Bosch CP4.20/2, 2000 Bar (29,008 psi)

Injection Order
1-4-2-5-3-6

Injector Type
CRI 2-20

Three electronically controlled fuel injectors are located on top of each cylinder bank. The injectors generate a fine fuel atomization at injection pressures of up to 2,000 bar (29,008 psi). Each injector is held in place by a tensioning claw and retaining bolt. A copper seal ring is located on the injector tip to seal off the injector to the combustion chamber.

The fuel quantity solenoid is a pulse width modulated valve that controls the amount of fuel sent or delayed to the high pressure pump elements inside of the high pressure pump. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) determines the fuel pressure set point based on engine sensor inputs. If the actual fuel rail pressure is too low, the PCM commands the solenoid to allow more fuel to flow to the high pressure pump. This minimizes the difference between the actual fuel rail pressure reading and the set point. The PCM will also operate the solenoid, delaying fuel if the fuel rail pressure becomes to high.

The fuel quantity solenoid is commanded open by the PCM to allow the high pressure pump to build maximum pressure 2000 bar (29,008 psi) the solenoid also has fuel tank heat protection function that meters the exact amount of fuel to prevent excess heated fuel from returning to the fuel tank.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Milous For This Useful Post:
  #1289  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:27 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 1069
mrmopar64 is on a distinguished road
Re: 2014 diesel production

The 2014 V6 diesel in the WK most definitely uses solenoid injectors for the fuel injection system. Both European and N.A. version run now at 2000bar (starting from 14MY), the only difference are some internal characteristics due to different power ratings. The 1800bar reference is from the previous engine (11-13MY).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1290  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:02 AM
1973Commando's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Land O' Lakes, FL
Posts: 600
Thanks: 33
Thanked 32 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 1470
1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute1973Commando has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmopar64 View Post
The 2014 V6 diesel in the WK most definitely uses solenoid injectors for the fuel injection system. Both European and N.A. version run now at 2000bar (starting from 14MY), the only difference are some internal characteristics due to different power ratings. The 1800bar reference is from the previous engine (11-13MY).
Why would a manufacturer choose solenoid valves versus piezo injectors and vice a versa. Price? Durability? Sounds like all will be going to piezo eventually. From what I read both the CRI 2-20 and the CRI 3-20 are capable of 8 injections per combustion event.
__________________
______________________________________
My Jeep:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 | Black, Inside and Out
5.7 liter HEMI | ORAII | Advanced Technology Package(w/ stop)

Reply With Quote
  #1291  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:35 AM
BobT's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 459
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 73326
BobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: 2014 diesel production

According to allpar.com 2011+ VM Motori V6 Diesel Engines the VM Motori CRD engines in Grands have had Multijet II since 2011. Any change in power and torque between 2011-13 and 2014 engines is probably simply a matter of tweeking the mapping. Bluespark already have a chip out for it Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 CRD 2014 on (EcoDiesel) 247 BHP / 184kw Petrol & Diesel Chip Tuning Boxes .
__________________
Ordered 9 Nov 2011 - Delivered 3:30pm Friday 13 April 2012
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 3L CRD, Black Forest Green Pearl, Quadra-lift, Off-road Adventure II, Front Recovery Hook, Mopar Tow Bar, Mopar Rock Rails, 150A Projecta Battery Isolator, Tekonsha P3 Brake Controller, Bridgestone D697 265/60R18 LT, Kimberley Kamper Special Edition
MudMap M7 off/on road sat nav, Chief front recovery hooks "chrome", Chief 3mm bash plate
Reply With Quote
  #1292  
Old 08-11-2013, 08:07 AM
Vtail's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 538
Thanks: 18
Thanked 101 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 1341
Vtail has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
According to allpar.com 2011+ VM Motori V6 Diesel Engines the VM Motori CRD engines in Grands have had Multijet II since 2011. Any change in power and torque between 2011-13 and 2014 engines is probably simply a matter of tweeking the mapping. Bluespark already have a chip out for it Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 CRD 2014 on (EcoDiesel) 247 BHP / 184kw Petrol & Diesel Chip Tuning Boxes .
I know there was some discussion about this earlier, but my concerns with changing the mapping (as an engineer who had a study emphasis on power and propulsion systems) are possible long term damage to the engine, increasing pollution and/or voiding the warranty. Engineers at Jeep have spent thousands of hours determining optimal engine tuning, matching it to the transmission shifting programs and meeting EPA requirements. In fact there was some speculation in this forum that those were possible reasons for the delays in launching the diesel. Isn't there some inherent risk in messing with that? I'd appreciate it if anyone with real-world experience can address these concerns. I would love to improve economy even further if it were possible with little or no risk.

ps. I just went over 100 posts. I now feel like a real member of this awesome forum :-)
__________________
Current garage/hangar:
2014 Grand Cherokee Summit EcoDiesel Cherry Red w/Jeep Brown interior
2011 John Deere 1023E diesel tractor
2009 Jetta TDI (better half's ride)
2007 Harley Softail Deluxe
1966 Beechcraft Bonanza "V-tail"
1930 Ford Model A - restoration in process
Reply With Quote
  #1293  
Old 08-11-2013, 08:45 AM
Chivvalry's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cranberry Twp, PA
Posts: 1,093
Thanks: 180
Thanked 123 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 81022
Chivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond reputeChivvalry has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtail View Post
I know there was some discussion about this earlier, but my concerns with changing the mapping (as an engineer who had a study emphasis on power and propulsion systems) are possible long term damage to the engine, increasing pollution and/or voiding the warranty. Engineers at Jeep have spent thousands of hours determining optimal engine tuning, matching it to the transmission shifting programs and meeting EPA requirements. In fact there was some speculation in this forum that those were possible reasons for the delays in launching the diesel. Isn't there some inherent risk in messing with that? I'd appreciate it if anyone with real-world experience can address these concerns. I would love to improve economy even further if it were possible with little or no risk.

ps. I just went over 100 posts. I now feel like a real member of this awesome forum :-)
They spent lots of time tuning the diesel to meet ultra stringent laboratory tests demanded by the EPA... in doing so they "optimized" for a particular thing. Putting a tuning box on a diesel to eke out some extra power and torque isn't exactly an uncommon thing these days and I have heard of it causing problems only when taken to the extremes.

I have no intention of having a smoke belching monster truck...
__________________
2014 GC Limited CRD Max Steel/Black LuxII ORAII RA4

11/13/13 MINE!! ALL MINE!!!



Reply With Quote
  #1294  
Old 08-11-2013, 09:49 AM
Shannon's Avatar
Loving the Jeep
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 1,207
Thanks: 217
Thanked 168 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 2055
Shannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond reputeShannon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2014 diesel production

All I know is I step on the accelerator, and it moves. Love this feature
__________________
SFU: Mine - all Mine: 2014.5 Overland 4X4 EcoDiesel, Billet Silver/Black. ORAII, Adv Tech, Engine Heater, 2000 coats of paint
Picked up 11/14


Current Ride:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Ecodiesel
2007 Wrangler (wife's ride)
2008 20' Four Winns bow rider speed boat
Reply With Quote
  #1295  
Old 08-11-2013, 10:24 AM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,368
Thanks: 2
Thanked 186 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 2374
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
We've been tuning CPU controlled diesels for at least 15 years. Nothing new with that.

The factory tune is sandbagged on purpose so you can't immediately damage the motor running to the floor with maximum towing weights, AC on, higher altitudes. Heat is the killer and the motor has a maximum output where heat can be removed by the cooling system. The motor is tuned to output something much less than that.

If you aren't towing, there are huge gains to be had without damage. The peak power can be much higher than the factory tune as long as you don't run wide open for minutes.

Gas engines are tuned much closer to max thermal capacity because their cooling isn't designed to handle higher output continuously under load.

bd
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #1296  
Old 08-11-2013, 10:31 AM
Willx's Avatar
Moderator - MOTS jr.


My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4,835
Thanks: 526
Thanked 816 Times in 458 Posts
Rep Power: 1926935
Willx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond reputeWillx has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
We've been tuning CPU controlled diesels for at least 15 years. Nothing new with that.

The factory tune is sandbagged on purpose so you can't immediately damage the motor running to the floor with maximum towing weights, AC on, higher altitudes. Heat is the killer and the motor has a maximum output where heat can be removed by the cooling system. The motor is tuned to output something much less than that.

If you aren't towing, there are huge gains to be had without damage. The peak power can be much higher than the factory tune as long as you don't run wide open for minutes.

Gas engines are tuned much closer to max thermal capacity because their cooling isn't designed to handle higher output continuously under load.

bd
See I don't want huge power. I do tow like many of the guys/gals from OZ. They have some nice light improvements that give you a little more torque and a little more horsepower and better fuel economy. I would be perfectly happy with 260 Horse and 450 foot pounds. It makes all the difference in the world!
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
3.0 crd, 3.0 ecodiesel, 3.0 grand cherokee, crd, ecodiesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheapest 2014 Diesel You Can Get Trailpixie Diesel Powered 2012+ Export Grand Cherokee 28 09-06-2013 11:44 PM
2014 Diesel Question JABEACHFANZ Diesel Powered 2012+ Export Grand Cherokee 34 04-10-2013 11:23 AM
2014 Diesel bootleg23 Diesel Powered 2012+ Export Grand Cherokee 27 03-21-2013 02:17 AM
2014 diesel offroad test LJS8510 Diesel Powered 2012+ Export Grand Cherokee 5 02-26-2013 10:59 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community