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  #4573  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:16 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Vtail View Post
4 Things You Should Know About Installing an Engine Chip

I have to believe the Chrysler/Jeep/VM Motori engineers have spent thousands of hours tuning this engine for the intended use and integration with the transmission and emission systems to meet specs and regulations. I'm assuming the stock CRD will do everything I want it to without any mods. So I'm not going to risk any potential damage or voided warranty. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but to each his own.
I partially agree with this...and this is why.

Albeit a Subaru, but my STi is "The" Subaru performance vehicle but if you compare a dyno run of the stock tune to one from a tuner it would make you cry. AFR among other things is all over the place.

There is a huge dip in power around 3000 RPM and this among other flaws in the factory tune is for the sake of emissions. Many have done it (some way more extreme than others) but getting a professional tuner to tweak the maps will gain you a nice steady power curve within the current limits of the engine and in the subaru's case about 20 HP/30Tq to go along with that.

Knowing that the Bluespark is just a box with "cookie cutter" tweaks, it still leaves you at risk but if there is actual research by the company with a dyno and other things along this line then the maps should be safe for everyday use.
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  #4574  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:26 PM
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From page 4 of the 2014 jgc diesel owners manual:
"MESSAGE FROM CHRYSLER GROUP LLC
Chrysler Group LLC welcome you as a turbocharged
diesel-powered vehicle owner. Your diesel vehicle will
sound, feel, drive, and operate differently from a
gasoline-powered vehicle. It is important that you read
and understand this manual.
Almost 100% of the heavy trucks in the United States and
Canada are diesel-powered because of the fuel economy,
rugged durability, and high torque which permits pulling
heavy loads.
You may find that some of the starting, operating, and
maintenance procedures are different. However, they are
simple to follow and careful adherence to them will ensure
that you take full advantage of the features of this engine.
NOTE: Some aftermarket products may cause severe
engine/transmission and/or exhaust system damage.
Your vehicle’s Powertrain Control Systems can detect
and store information about vehicle modifications that
increase horsepower and torque output such as whether
or not performance-enhancing powertrain components,
commonly referred to as downloaders, power boxes, or
performance chips have been used.
This information cannot be erased and will stay in the
system’s memory even if the modification is removed. This
information can be retrieved by Chrysler Group LLC, and
service and repair facilities, when servicing your vehicle.
This information may be used to determine if repair will be
covered by New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
There is a probability that the use of a “performance chip”
will prohibit the engine from starting. In this instance, the
vehicle will need to be serviced by a authorized dealer in
order to return the vehicle "

Still think you should use bluespark?
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  #4575  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

That is a default CYA clause. The stock ECU cannot tell if signals from its sensors are altered. You would have to obviously remove the device and return the engine bay to OEM state before warranty work. As long as that is done, I guarantee you will not have a single problem. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles worldwide have chips/piggyback ECU's with little issue.
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  #4576  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtail View Post
4 Things You Should Know About Installing an Engine Chip

I have to believe the Chrysler/Jeep/VM Motori engineers have spent thousands of hours tuning this engine for the intended use and integration with the transmission and emission systems to meet specs and regulations. I'm assuming the stock CRD will do everything I want it to without any mods. So I'm not going to risk any potential damage or voided warranty. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but to each his own.
I think the information in that link is a little off - a chip doesn't immediately void your warranty as stated above.

With that said, I completely agree with you. You can usually get more performance out of an engine, but there is always a trade-off, and unless you know exactly what that chip is doing, and what the trade-offs are, you're playing with fire. It essentially comes down to a risk benefit analysis, and for me, the extra benefit doesn't warrant the risk. I plan to own this Jeep for more than a decade, for me it's about endurance, not a sprint
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  #4577  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:39 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

An engine is built with a certain amount of "buffer" in it's design overhead so that if it is mistreated, it can still withstand some punishment and keep on ticking. All a chip does is reduce that buffer amount and operate the engine closer to it's peak potential. As long as you don't abuse it and keep it well maintained, it will last just as long as a "stock" de-rated engine.
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  #4578  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:39 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

So instead of putting a chip in the GC; what about some type of sport intake? I put one (K&N) on my Mazdaspeed 3 and love the results.
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  #4579  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:44 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Pillo View Post
Powertrain Control Systems can detect
and store information
about...downloaders, power boxes, or
performance chips have been used.
This information cannot be erased and will stay in the
system’s memory even if the modification is removed
.
This topic keeps returning periodically. However, the users manual does seem pretty clear that it voids the warranty. Even if it had nothing to do with your problem, if they decided not to cover it because of the box, it would be an up hill battle, possibly in court, establishing the box was innocent.

Even if I were thinking of a box, I think I would see what it would do on its own first and then think very hard if the ability to "store information" is a bluff on Chrysler's part.
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  #4580  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:22 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

If you download a new map into the ECU, that of course can be recorded even if you remove the tuned map. That is generally what they are referring to and just group everything under that same context. I personally would not use a downloaded map and only a chip/box that can be completely removed without a trace.
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  #4581  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by padgett View Post
The gov is coming back, maybe now they'll ship.
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  #4582  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtail View Post

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-par...an-engine-chip

I have to believe the Chrysler/Jeep/VM Motori engineers have spent thousands of hours tuning this engine for the intended use and integration with the transmission and emission systems to meet specs and regulations. I'm assuming the stock CRD will do everything I want it to without any mods. So I'm not going to risk any potential damage or voided warranty. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but to each his own.
Don't agree at all
Vehicle manufactures design vehicles in committee and with a huge amount of negotiations, and averages
The motors are built to meet legal requirements and economy the are not build for performance.
Vehicle suspension is more about comfort and they have little interest in handling as a general rule as an example

After market suppliers spend huge amounts of time and funds to get the best out of the product the are selling.

If in doubt keep it standard
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  #4583  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
That is a default CYA clause. The stock ECU cannot tell if signals from its sensors are altered.
I have no idea if the ECU does detect whether signals are altered, but I'm very certain it can if Chrysler programmed it to do so.

I used to do research and programming with DSPs years ago and even with "average technology" 20 years ago, it would be pretty easy to detect "unusual patterns" in the inputs. With today's chips, it would be child's play for even a mediocre programmer.

If Chrysler felt they could justifiably avoid doing potentially costly warranty work by detecting these "unusual patterns", I could easily see them spending some time/money programming the ECU to do exactly that.

And by storing that info in the ECU and making it easily available to dealers/service-techs/etc then you don't even need to have sophisticated dealers/techs - all they have to do is read it off their display.

Again, I have no clue if the warnings are true and they do actually detect the chips or if it's just FUD to keep people from doing it. But to say they can't detect the chips because it's an external device that doesn't change the programming and "just alters the inputs" is not correct.
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  #4584  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:38 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by fwdjeep View Post
Don't agree at all
Vehicle manufactures design vehicles in committee and with a huge amount of negotiations, and averages
The motors are built to meet legal requirements and economy the are not build for performance.
Vehicle suspension is more about comfort and they have little interest in handling as a general rule as an example

After market suppliers spend huge amounts of time and funds to get the best out of the product the are selling.

If in doubt keep it standard
Vehicle engineers would love to have a word with you.

And most aftermarket products are pure junk.
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