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  #5005  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:33 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Actually, it's not making sense to me. If shipping logistics are the only issue, then why don't they move from JS to KZ L (released and invoiced, but not shipped). It does seem there's more to it (sigh).
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  #5006  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:28 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Vtail View Post
Let's see, 27 out of 600/day production, that's less than 5%. That tells me they are either holding back or the demand has tapered for the time being...
Chevy/Marlon,

Correct me if I'm off here, but isn't it 600 per shift, not per day?

If so, 3 shifts x 600 = 1800 vehicles per day. I'm not certain if that's just JGC or JGC and Durango's (probably a mix).

But, that being said, if that's the throughput, that 27 per day is less than 2% of total factory output.
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  #5007  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:37 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

I thought it was 1200 per day =X It is definitely more than 600 a day, though.

I see jeeps from the beginning of the year that were transported from JNAP to Toledo and then put on a train, perhaps they will do the opposite for Cherokees?

Additionally, my suspicion is that a slow down is due to the limited storage space - if they produce them at the same rate, they lose that space to store other vehicles. Eventually, it will have a negative impact on logistics.
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  #5008  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:38 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

I will note, I spoke with the salesman I have worked through to buy my Durango and order my Jeep through.

I chatted with him a bit, and he's smart enough to know that I talk with folks that know a lot more than he does, or his sales rep, which lead to him RANTING at me for about 20 minutes today over the phone. At one point shouting at me that "Whoever you talk with over in Jeep/Chrysler, you need to make them aware that the guys in the trenches are getting hammered by this and are losing actual sales over it."

"Who the hell thought it was a great idea to roll out ads for this thing back in January, tell people it would be available in May (which was what Mr. Jeep himself told the Detroit FreePress), get a ton of great press for the rig, and then completely botch the launch???"

Dude was PISSED OFF. He had several dozen orders for Diesels, and he's lost about 20% of them so far to competing brands due to the three month wait on paid orders (people walking away from the $500 deposit, sticking the dealership with a rig with a high MSRP and going into a bad season to try and move the product).

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  #5009  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:59 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
I will note, I spoke with the salesman I have worked through to buy my Durango and order my Jeep through.

I chatted with him a bit, and he's smart enough to know that I talk with folks that know a lot more than he does, or his sales rep, which lead to him RANTING at me for about 20 minutes today over the phone. At one point shouting at me that "Whoever you talk with over in Jeep/Chrysler, you need to make them aware that the guys in the trenches are getting hammered by this and are losing actual sales over it."

"Who the hell thought it was a great idea to roll out ads for this thing back in January, tell people it would be available in May (which was what Mr. Jeep himself told the Detroit FreePress), get a ton of great press for the rig, and then completely botch the launch???"

Dude was PISSED OFF. He had several dozen orders for Diesels, and he's lost about 20% of them so far to competing brands due to the three month wait on paid orders (people walking away from the $500 deposit, sticking the dealership with a rig with a high MSRP and going into a bad season to try and move the product).

I can't blame him for being upset. This is his bread and butter, and Jeep is taking money out of his pocket. He is working to make the sale, but Jeep is not delivering. Think about how pissed we are waiting since March when Sergio said they would be available. Now imagine if you had to feed your kids based on the lies told by Jeep. If 20% are walking away, and they have 2200+ made, that is 2.2 million lost in sales, and probably just shy of a half million lost in direct profit - that is just for Jeep. Imaging how much more the dealers are losing with the delay. It will only get worse as time passes by, because more and more people will walk away. Also, since they keep telling us they are in 100% inspection for so long, they are setting themselves up for failure. Imagine if you got a Jeep last March, even as late as June, and it had a problem. You would think nothing of it, and take it to the dealer for repairs. Since they have been holding ours so long, we expect them to be perfect. If there is a problem after delivery, people will be very upset, as our jeeps are promised to be delivered perfect, which we all know that no car is perfect. Sergio is lucky that it is not a publicly traded company, or he would be on the unemployment line. No shareholder would stand for his inept handling of this release.
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  #5010  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:01 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Honestly, if I jump ship, it probably wouldn't be for another GC. I'd probably pick up an Audi S4. I was set on the S4 when I learned of the GC CRD. Only a Jeep with a diesel could have undermined my plans to own an S4.
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  #5011  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:08 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
Chevy/Marlon,

Correct me if I'm off here, but isn't it 600 per shift, not per day?

If so, 3 shifts x 600 = 1800 vehicles per day. I'm not certain if that's just JGC or JGC and Durango's (probably a mix).

But, that being said, if that's the throughput, that 27 per day is less than 2% of total factory output.
2 shifts, 6-7 days.. 3 'crews' total, but only 2 shifts work on any given day. It's a rotating schedule. A traditional 3 shift schedule (like all high volume plants run) makes too much sense. I've went over this before, again, tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime. It's the Chrysler way.

The daily build averages about 1200. It's consistently been above that for a while. But again, if we worked 3 shifts a day, we could easily push another 3-400 cars out.

As for the 27 NAFTA's, that's not a consistent number. A couple weeks ago seems like half the build were NAFTA diesels on my shift. So it varies. But as stated, they have tapered off a bit. (As expected.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
I will note, I spoke with the salesman I have worked through to buy my Durango and order my Jeep through.

I chatted with him a bit, and he's smart enough to know that I talk with folks that know a lot more than he does, or his sales rep, which lead to him RANTING at me for about 20 minutes today over the phone. At one point shouting at me that "Whoever you talk with over in Jeep/Chrysler, you need to make them aware that the guys in the trenches are getting hammered by this and are losing actual sales over it."

"Who the hell thought it was a great idea to roll out ads for this thing back in January, tell people it would be available in May (which was what Mr. Jeep himself told the Detroit FreePress), get a ton of great press for the rig, and then completely botch the launch???"

Dude was PISSED OFF. He had several dozen orders for Diesels, and he's lost about 20% of them so far to competing brands due to the three month wait on paid orders (people walking away from the $500 deposit, sticking the dealership with a rig with a high MSRP and going into a bad season to try and move the product).

Tell your salesman we echo his sentiment from the inside. At least I do. I have ZERO post worthy info at the moment, bc now even my ppl are contradicting one another. It's sad.. I feel for you guys.. I know someone here is wondering, "idk what's worse, the CRD rollout or the ACA site debacle!?"

It'd be a good way to send this thread to the flammables, so let's not go there.. But I know someone is thinking it.
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  #5012  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:17 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
I will note, I spoke with the salesman I have worked through to buy my Durango and order my Jeep through.

I chatted with him a bit, and he's smart enough to know that I talk with folks that know a lot more than he does, or his sales rep, which lead to him RANTING at me for about 20 minutes today over the phone. At one point shouting at me that "Whoever you talk with over in Jeep/Chrysler, you need to make them aware that the guys in the trenches are getting hammered by this and are losing actual sales over it."

"Who the hell thought it was a great idea to roll out ads for this thing back in January, tell people it would be available in May (which was what Mr. Jeep himself told the Detroit FreePress), get a ton of great press for the rig, and then completely botch the launch???"

Dude was PISSED OFF. He had several dozen orders for Diesels, and he's lost about 20% of them so far to competing brands due to the three month wait on paid orders (people walking away from the $500 deposit, sticking the dealership with a rig with a high MSRP and going into a bad season to try and move the product).

I'd like to see everyone get their vehicles as soon as possible but if they are loosing sales on this delay it might make it a lot easier to get a better deal. Since I'm still undecided on Summit or Overland and Hemi or CRD I can wait until I see what comes into the dealer maybe and hope for a better deal. If they are not released until November that might cut into the Christmas season of some people who might just decide to hold back until after the holiday season. Plus more than anything I just have to see some of the colors in person. Decisions decisions decisions!!!
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:29 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtail View Post
Here is the long version of a study done by the University of Michigan:
http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmf...ort_dd2017.pdf

Here is a summary news media coverage of the same data:
New Study Finds Diesel Cars Cheaper to Own | Edmunds.com

Thanks Vtail that's a lot to read 22 pages but I did look at the various conclusions. I don't agree with it for the most part. I had a friend give me an hour and a half speech about the math and the figures and said I would be even better off getting the V6 and if not that the V8 figures still would come out better on highway driving for me. I saw a break down on here where someone said it would take more than a million miles to make the CRD worth while and I don't tow anything but my skies. LOL I've had a lot of vehicles in my life time especially 4x4 even two Rang Rovers, three Land Cruisers, his and hers Jeep Wranglers, the old Black GC with the gold stripping a Chevy 4x4 Quadra Van with a four bolt main engine a few more that I just can't remember. Love to Ski!!!! I just wish I could custom order a vehicle like a lot of people wish. Oh well.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:43 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

IIRC, the comparison with a v6 is a tough sell. You would have to drive over 100k miles to come close to breaking even.

With the v8, the numbers become much easier to swallow. The price premium is much less for the diesel, and the MPG divide is bigger.

Additionally, you have to consider resale value. Generally, diesel based models resell for higher than their gas counter parts.

Comparing the v6 to the diesel is a hard sell if all you care about is mpgs. The diesel brings much more to the table, and is much more comparable to the v8 in terms of capabilities.

EDIT:

By my calculations, of a crd vs v6 vs v8 all 4x4, and based on current US average gas prices, and not considering resale value, all of which are the worst possible conditions for the CRD, I found the following:

diesel vs the v6, you will get back your investment between 245k miles and never.
diesel vs the v8 you get back your investment between 20k miles and 50k miles.

So with all factors AGAINST the CRD, it would maybe pay itself off vs a v6 if you keep it for a long time and drive a lot. Compared to a v8, it's a no brainer.

This is not considering the mandatory package costs, just the engine cost differences.
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  #5015  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:19 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by 5.7 My Hemi View Post
I had a friend give me an hour and a half speech about the math and the figures and said I would be even better off getting the...
If you go by purely MPG investment and don't look at any external factors (like, what you will do with the vehicle), the V6 beats everything else in the group pretty thoroughly.

V6 (8 Speed)
MPG (City): 17.0
MPG (Hwy): 25.0
MPG (Combined):18.6
Fuel Capacity: 26.4 gallons
Range (City): 448.8 miles
Range(Hwy): 660 miles
Range (Combined): 491.04 miles
Fuel Cost: $3.19
Estimated Annual Fuel: $2,572.58
Annual Fuel Delta: $0.00

CRD (8 Speed)
MPG (City): 20.0
MPG (Hwy): 28.0
MPG (Combined): 21.6
Fuel Capacity: 26.4 gallons
Range (City): 528miles
Range(Hwy): 739.2 miles
Range (Combined): 570.24 miles
Fuel Cost: $3.99
Estimated Fuel: $2,770.83
Annual Fuel Delta: $198.25

V8 (8 Speed)
MPG (City): 14.0
MPG (Hwy): 22.0
MPG (Combined): 15.6
Fuel Capacity: 26.4 gallons
Range (City): 369.6 miles
Range(Hwy): 580.8 miles
Range (Combined): 411.84 miles
Fuel Cost: $3.19
Estimated Annual Fuel: $3,067.31
Annual Fuel Delta: $494.73

Now, as you can see, the CRD (with current fuel costs) will never end up paying you back versus the V6 (that will change in the summer as gas goes up hugely and diesel goes down slightly). In all honesty, tit for tat on the V6 from an MPG standpoint (with no other external factors), the V6 and the CRD will go toe to toe in this realm, so just write off the $4k you spent on the CRD... ya ain't earning it back here.

Against the V8, on the other hand, the CRD will pay for itself in about 4 years and there after, you will be making bank.

However, if you slap a 5,000 pound trailer on the ass end, and the whole equation will change drastically. Under load, your MPG's on a petrol based vehicle can plummet to 50% MPG. So, in short, if you are towing anything of any weight for any distance with any amount of regularity, the CRD will crush the other options (especially the V8) from a return standpoint. You'd honestly pay off the CRD difference in 2 years.

If you live at altitude, you will also see a shift in favour of the CRD (or, really, anything with a Turbo slapped on it). I've seen tests where a SRT JGC was down to 300HP at altitude (Denver), so now you are sucking in just as much fuel, but getting vastly less HP. Now throw a trailer on that...

You also should look at maintenance costs. Honestly, the diesel will cost you more in oil and the additives then a regular petrol. However, you change the oil less often (unless you run a high blend of BioDiesel, in that case, there's a caveat). If you pick a V8, well, the spark plug change on that sucker will cost you a pretty penny...

At any rate, it comes down to what you plan to do with the ride. We bought the V6 Durango as the daily family hauler. The Diesel is for towing the Boat and Camper around into the boonies for fun, not necessarily my daily driver, hence, I want the torque (for both towing, and plunking around in the mountain passes).
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  #5016  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:32 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
At any rate, it comes down to what you plan to do with the ride. We bought the V6 Durango as the daily family hauler. The Diesel is for towing the Boat and Camper around into the boonies for fun, not necessarily my daily driver, hence, I want the torque (for both towing, and plunking around in the mountain passes).
Interesting post, but I noticed you didn't factor in the cost of skittles
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