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2014 diesel production

1M views 9K replies 268 participants last post by  fun2drive 
#1 ·
....unfortunately is being pushed back to the 3rd quarter. From an excellent source. Sorry folks
 
#3,852 ·
Do I have any hope of getting my Jeep before November 4th? The estimated ship date they gave to me is the 22nd. I need the Jeep before November 4th or not until June 2014. I am attempting to sell my tickets to the USGP now. I was looking forward to having a vehicle while on my trip.
 
#3,854 ·
Did Milous delete another post or am I just mis-remembering the who/where of the post? In the past couple days I saw a post saying that one of the roadblocks to the diesel release was taken care of. I thought it was Milous and was in this thread. I was looking back to see if the date on the post was around the date that the CARB cert went through, but I can't seem to find the post.

One other thing I'm curious about - if it's the EPA that's holding things up, why does it seem that basically all JGC shipments are currently being held (based on Chevy's observations and a report from someone's dealer)? Obviously the gassers have already passed ... unless Jeep tweaked the ECU or something related to the emissions that required a re-cert...

I wonder if we're still dealing with multiple issues. In one of Chevy's posts, I seem to recall him saying something about if the EPA cert was the ONLY issue ... implying that might be one of the issues but not the only one.

But back to the CARB thing - yeah, as someone else pointed out, if the CARB cert was just issued, it seems there was poor planning/management on that front since they wouldn't be able to ship without that and I don't think that can be blamed on the federal govt shutdown.
 
#3,856 · (Edited)
One other thing I'm curious about - if it's the EPA that's holding things up, why does it seem that basically all JGC shipments are currently being held (based on Chevy's observations and a report from someone's dealer)? Obviously the gassers have already passed ... unless Jeep tweaked the ECU or something related to the emissions that required a re-cert... I wonder if we're still dealing with multiple issues.
I'm not sure ALL shipments are held. My gas Overland built last Friday, went KZ Saturday, and got loaded on a railcar today. Now, it did disappear for a day or so (departed facility, then no updates for over a day), but reappeared today on the railcar.

My estimated delivery did wonk out for a bit. It started as 10/14, then changed to 10/18 after build, then back to 10/16 after KZ, and now it's all the way back to 10/14 again. Eh...who knows... :)
 
#3,860 ·
The big question now is....... Do we have to wait for the Feds to open for business?
 
#3,893 ·
Let's be blunt here: There are hold ups. They were not expected. You can plan for a lot of things however sometimes even the best plans are laid to waste by things you can't control (eg, third parties). Look at the SkyActiv-D for an example of a very similar situation.
Valid point. I'm not mad it's taking so long. I want the best they can make. Lying to the consumer is what is ticking me off. They could tell us that due to an unforeseen delay, all shipments of CRD trucks are being delayed indefinately. Telling me it's in 100% inspection when it isn't is unforgivable. Just being blunt
 
#3,869 · (Edited)
Note that as in my ps this is a "conditional" cert dependent of the manufacturer supplying more data within certain timelines else there is a $5000/car penalty. Each.

The OBD-II element is interesting since that is what is reported over the CAN bus to the connector under the dash. It must work mostly. Just as a side note there was one report that the engine needed reprogramming recently in Europe. The European OBD (EOBD) is similar to the US ODB-II standard. Mostly.

Exactly what the twelve discrepancies were is not in this paper and a quick Google search did not find. Does anyone have access to exactly what those discrepancies were ? It must be public record.

Slowly a picture is being painted of an engine that has issues that are now being rushed despite having years to fix. In the long run it might be cheaper for CJF to just buy certified diesels elsewhere for the '14 model year but imagine a few careers hang on this.

That said if the engine programming is anything like the service manual CD, I wish them luck but would suggest that in the future they hire a professional.

ps it is amazing what you find if you look: the GC diesel is evaled und the rules for a LDT4 (light duty truck class 4, the heaviest). To be rated LDT4 the average of the curb weight and the GVWR must be at least 5750 lbs. With a 6500 GVWR this means the curb weight must be at least 5000 lbs. Wonder if this is why no Laredo ?
 
#3,872 ·
Note that as in my ps this is a "conditional" cert dependent of the manufacturer supplying more data within certain timelines else there is a $5000/car penalty. Each.

The OBD-II element is interesting since that is what is reported over the CAN bus to the connector under the dash. It must work mostly. Just as a side note there was one report that the engine needed reprogramming recently in Europe. The European OBD (EOBD) is similar to the US ODB-II standard. Mostly.

Exactly what the twelve discrepancies were is not in this paper and a quick Google search did not find. Does anyone have access to exactly what those discrepancies were ? It must be public record.

Slowly a picture is being painted of an engine that has issues that are now being rushed despite having years to fix. In the long run it might be cheaper for CJF to just buy certified diesels elsewhere for the '14 model year but imagine a few careers hang on this.

That said if the engine programming is anything like the service manual CD, I wish them luck but would suggest that in the future they hire a professional.
I can tell you 90% of the diesels shipping initially to California were all fined. They will allow the shipments today as long as you pay the fine for each vehicle.

If the deficiencies are public record, you should look up the ones for Mercedes, and VW.... I think they both initially were at a lot higher than 12 and continue to pay fines today.

I find it ironic actually considering that the new diesels are less harmful than the average gas engine produced today when you compare cancer causing agents etc. from emissions.
 
#3,871 ·
I understand JNAP's hesitation to say what they are holding all the diesels for. But it would be nice if they actually came out and said we are holding them and they will be released once we get resolution to the issue at hand.
 
#3,874 · (Edited)
True but my interest is not anyone else's diesel, it is the VM 3 liter TD. The reason I was curious about which OBD-II elements were missed was to compare them to the European requirements.

Of course it may be that there are certain parameters that CJF just does not want anyone with a SmartPhone and Torque reading but first I would look to the old saw "never attribute to evil genius what may be explained by simple stupidity".

To make that analysis, I need to know which OBD-II elements were wrong or missing. Not obsessing over it, more professional curiosity.

ps there have been cars before that were "not available in California" - and I have bought some (usually models with manual transmissions).

pps: epa.gov: "The federal government is currently shut down. The EPA website and social media channels will not be updated until the federal government reopens."
 
#3,875 ·
Notice that the fines are for ODB2 compliance. This translates to "Your vehicles emissions are acceptable, but your electronic diagnostics don't fully support our emissions testing equipment, so pay up."

Its probably a ODB2 feature set only needed in gassers and all diesels have to "pay to play". Pure extortion.

bd
 
#3,879 ·
Hi, I am from the government and I am here to help.

The pay to play stuff is pure bs these days and getting worse. Red tape and bureaucracy plain and simple. Where I live, technically you need a permit to dump a dump truck load of dirt. Do they inspect? No. It is revenue raising plain and simple.

Next time I get pulled over for a lame/petty traffic violation, I am going to say "let me guess, you were looking to find me to tell me you found my Nintendo Wii, stereo receiver, cds and other things that were stollen in 2010."

The CARB thing could be a problem in that other jurisdictions follow CARB rules. This is getting darn ridiculous. I am thinking about canceling and trying again in six months. There is nothing wrong with my 2006 duramax...just a small back seat for the upcoming car seat and no room for my two berners.
 
#3,880 ·
It was a little chilly on the ride in this morning... I'm just hoping that I get my new Jeep before it starts snowing here in Western PA.
 
#3,881 ·
Western PA? Well then, look at the brighter side, Pirates made it to the NLDS and are tied with mighty St. Louis going into the final game of the series tomorrow. This could be the year for the Bucs. Now that Phillies are out, they are the underdog to cheer for.
 
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#3,882 ·
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#3,886 ·
A nice article on diesels (and I'll note they are using the same tranny as the Jeep). Diesels in the USA: Time for a renaissance - MSN Autos MPG is looking pretty good, even though I know the Jeep will be less as she's quite a bit heavier than the Audi.
I was seriously considering the Audi Q5, and had I ordered the diesel I would have had it by now. The dealer even has some in inventory that I could go buy today. But it was smaller than the Jeep, more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain, ride wasn't as nice as the Jeep air suspension, and didn't have the technology the Jeep has unless you buy the uber-premium uber-expensive model. So I sit and wait...
 
#3,888 ·
My comment was intended to related to CARB fines and how it effects the price of our vehicles. I don't give a rip what the politics are. I'm griping about the financial issues involved. As stated by others, a large bankrupt state dictating fines that we all must absorb rubs me wrong.

Sorry if that struck anyone wrong.

bd
 
#3,889 ·
CARB certification wad done on October 3rd. So, re-reading what our "insiders" wrote last week, it seems in line that this was one of the issues that needed to be resolved. I guess the other one now is the EPA.
 
#3,892 ·
What has been said has been said. Lets keep politics off this forum, and focus on our skittle farting unicorns lost in the diesel zone.

 
#3,894 ·
Agree, Shannon...'doesn't matter if you use your right hand or your left hand...to...um...drive your Jeep. :D
 
#3,895 ·
Willx says "close" about EPA. So, since there is nothing else to do but speculate, I thought for a second "huh, the Monroney sticker is official form, right?" Is there a government agency that prints it? Or is it up to the manufacturers?
 
#3,896 ·
My jeep had been stuck VOTs paint in two weeks. I called Chrysler and after they checked into it for a day they said "something happened." No other comment available. Now I have a new VIN and I'm back in pre-release. I guess it's really not a big deal since they are not shipping anyway.

It did seem like they didn't notice there was a problem till I called.
 
#3,915 ·
Been to a CDJ dealership lately?

30% of the yard is Jeep Grand Cherokees.

I suspect they are still cranking out the CRD's because they are hitting a saturation point from an inventory perspective for the petrol versions right now.

They know there's pent up demand for the diesel versions (as 1,200 will not be enough for NAFTA), so, either way, they are building up inventory. Either it's unsold petrol versions, or stored diesel versions (that they know will sell).

I will note, with some despair, that the woman has put the cut date at Oct 31. If the CRD is not in the driveway/on the dealer lot/on a train with an arrival date, we'll be canning the order. :(
 
#3,903 ·
Well I have accepted the fact that I probably won't have my new JGC for my trip in November to Austin. Now, I am hoping to have the Car before my Christmas trip to New England; I am starting to doubt this will happen as well.
 
#3,925 ·
Fall officially ends 12/20 - This could be awhile
 
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