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  #805  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:28 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

One issue is that a turbo diesel is a little like a horse - it will run as hard as it can until it dies.

The only way to protect is by monitoring either CHT (cyl head temp) or EGT (exhaust gas temp). This is particularly important with aluminum heads which can crack/warp easily.

The alternative is just to control the maximum power within the parameters of the cooling system. This is the typical manufacturer answer.

My RV can give 30 mpg and yet move with traffic because it has a small (2.4 liter) TD with a lot (15-18 psi) of boost. Even with two radiators I have to limit max power by the temperaure rise particularly on a hot day.

So the real answer is that with the proper controls plus enough boost and fuel flow, a TD can just about double its rated power but for a few seconds only. If you want both power and life then it is best to have an EGT (reacts faster than a CHT) ahead of the turbo and understand what it is telling you.

If you need more power for longer then as much attention must be paid to the cooling system as the power chip. A large oil cooler is a really good idea.
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  #806  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:07 AM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Precisely Padgett... For higher power you have to raise EGT (if tune only change) it is just thermodynamics. Lots if great turbo and diesel design books out there you should read before modding.

I just wanted to point out this issue as you guys need to understand the downsides that these aftermarket programming companies won't exactly tell you. Not all are bad but you REALLY need to do your homework and an understanding of the basic thermo behind what is happening will lead you to understand if its worth it. Some of these companies just change curves until they see power increases and or mileage changes on the dyno without totally understanding what the years of performance calibration work behind the stock setup is doing. The smaller tuning companies also have cheaper diagnostic and sensing equipment (some of the better stuff is only really available to the manufacturers themselves because so cost prohibitive) which means sometimes they aren't even totally sure of what the results of their work is. They won't admit that though...

Bottom line is just be careful!

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  #807  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:10 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
The Pro units fill the gap between conventional 'tuning boxes' and remaps. Bluespark engineers use data downloaded from the cars ECU to find engine limitations (preventing component damage) and potential areas for improvements, similar to re-mapping. This data is then utilized in the Bluespark Pro units in different ways.
The Bluespark Pro has the ability to provide huge low down and mid-range torque gains compared to conventional tuning boxes.
It comes with 9 user selectable fuel maps pre-installed for your vehicle, ranging from low down torque for towing, economy maps and all out performance maps; ensuring that there will be a fuel map to match YOUR needs and driving style.
The Pro unit is also available with additional boost control on some vehicles to increase turbocharger output providing even bigger power and torque gains (up to 35%).
Boost models also come with BoostSense software, a technology not available elsewhere in the market. BoostSense monitors rather than increases turbocharger boost, allowing the unit to change fuelling in a more intelligent manner, preventing excess smoke off-boost and protecting your cars DPF (particulate filter).
They have an informal poll on their site asking people what their most important tuning box feature is... and the second answer, with 21%, is "Staying within manufacturer specifications." I hope this means they take the life and longevity of the engine seriously.

Improving the turbocharger output intelligently should, obviously with some limitations, keep the exhaust temps down. This does NOT appear to be a "redneck deesul toon"...

YMMV of course.
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  #808  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BIRDDOG View Post
Question for willx, i noticed you had a ml 320 in your history and wondered if you are also looking at the ml350 with the new off road package? It's cost with off road should be about $57,500 and that is where the top overlands will be.
Not really, I looked at them briefly last fall. I am definitely getting a Summit Diesel. Frankly once you upgrade to leather to get the vented seats and you add air suspension and all the other options on the Mercedes it is waaayyyyy more.

The price isn't what got me it is being married to the dealer and the maintenance. Sure free loaners nice cars but the entire experience overall was not worth what I paid IMO.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:39 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
Not really, I looked at them briefly last fall. I am definitely getting a Summit Diesel. Frankly once you upgrade to leather to get the vented seats and you add air suspension and all the other options on the Mercedes it is waaayyyyy more.

The price isn't what got me it is being married to the dealer and the maintenance. Sure free loaners nice cars but the entire experience overall was not worth what I paid IMO.
There is indeed a big difference in Jeep service depts vs. BMW or MB. BMW feels like a classy place, but you pay for it and then some. My local Jeep dealer's service dept felt more like "Peopleofwalmalmart.com" Gotta admit that paying 45K+ for a Jeep & no loaner at service or warranty repair time doesn't sit well.
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  #810  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JWS360 View Post

There is indeed a big difference in Jeep service depts vs. BMW or MB. BMW feels like a classy place, but you pay for it and then some. My local Jeep dealer's service dept felt more like "Peopleofwalmalmart.com" Gotta admit that paying 45K+ for a Jeep & no loaner at service or warranty repair time doesn't sit well.
There are lots of Chrysler stores that provide loaners... but lol
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:32 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

The stock tune, simply put, is designed to stay within the thermodynamic limits of the motor under maximum towing conditions. If you chip/tune the motor, don't tow....or install an EGT ("pyro") gauge and keep it under 1100 degrees AT THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD. Drive by EGT. To increase the thermodynamic capacity, install a larger exhaust, and free flowing intake. Other mods include a larger intercooler, water/meth injection, larger injectors.

With a reasonably mild tune providing 30% more power, there is little you can do in daily driving to damage a typical modern diesel under unloaded conditions. You CAN however damage a transmission that is marginally sized to the factory rated torque.

You guys concered with backyard tuning, etc....your fears are unfounded as long as you do the research. I've noticed several misinformed statements already. Safe tuning is nothing new to the diesel community. In a year, the new JGC CRD owners will understand more also.

bd
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  #812  
Old 07-10-2013, 02:45 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
With a reasonably mild tune providing 30% more power, there is little you can do in daily driving to damage a typical modern diesel under unloaded conditions. You CAN however damage a transmission that is marginally sized to the factory rated torque.

bd

Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

The hp70 is rated to 700nm...

Bluespark... those numbers: 301 BHP, 688 Nm
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  #813  
Old 07-10-2013, 02:46 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Milous View Post
Latest on ordering: August 9th
Ordering opens on a Friday??
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  #814  
Old 07-10-2013, 02:49 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by anthnyajp View Post
Ordering opens on a Friday??
I found this curious as well. I will unfortunately be heading up to Lake Tahoe for a bachelor party that morning, guess I will have to wait until I get back to order my Jeep.
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  #815  
Old 07-10-2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
There are lots of Chrysler stores that provide loaners... but lol
Also, Chrysler told me the Service Contract covers rental cars even for regular maintenance. Only one guy at Chrysler told me this though. So, check my facts.
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  #816  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:30 PM
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Re: 2014 diesel production

I did not mention a particular EGT temperature since the max varies depending on whether upstream or downstream of the turbo. There are pros and cons for each but upstream will react faster and be higher overall.

For a good discussion, see here.
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