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Old 06-02-2014, 06:47 PM
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Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Below are UOA results from Blackstone.

2014 JGC EcoDiesel
Oil Type: Rotella T5 10W30
Current Mileage: 7,000
Miles on Oil: 4,000

Added 1/2 can of Liquimoly MOS2, roughly 8 oz.

TBN at 3.8 sounds lower than what I would've expected. 16 PPM iron sounds higher than what I would've expected for 4,000 miles.

Next sample will be, whatever the dealer puts in, which I assume is Euro L, run it for 4,000 miles and I guess to be fair I should put in 8 OZ. MOS2.

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Old 06-03-2014, 08:17 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Thank you for posting this!
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:43 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Quote:
Originally Posted by C175 View Post
Added 1/2 can of Liquimoly MOS2, roughly 8 oz.
Thanks for posting your results. Are you certain that adding this to your oil is advisable? It seems like something that could ash your DPF.

I will note that your UOA is the only one published in this forum so far that had a nonzero molybdenum level.
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Old 12-08-2014, 01:15 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
Thanks for posting your results. Are you certain that adding this to your oil is advisable? It seems like something that could ash your DPF.

I will note that your UOA is the only one published in this forum so far that had a nonzero molybdenum level.
Consider this, the sample shows about 50% less wear than seen on other samples. I'm basing that from 16ppm iron vs. 50 ppm iron on other samples (and using 229.51 oils).

Ok trade off, it could end up on your DPF, IF your engine burns oil excessively.

Given this trade off, i'd rather protect the engine than the DPF. Everyone else looks at it the other way around, I just use common sense.

I'm at 23,000 miles, 15,000 of those miles with CJ4 oil, only regenned twice in 23k. Appears my DPF is in good condition.

Mobil1 ESP has around 75 ppm of moly in its additive package.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C175 View Post
Consider this, the sample shows about 50% less wear than seen on other samples. I'm basing that from 16ppm iron vs. 50 ppm iron on other samples (and using 229.51 oils).
Are you basing this on a comparison of your non-factory oil UOA to everyone else's UOA of the factory oil? If so, I'm not certain you're comparing apples to apples here. Isn't the initial oil from the factory expected to have slightly higher iron, etc, due to manufacturing & initial break-in?

Don't get me wrong; this is an interesting assertion. I'll definitely compare your data with a future UOA of my oil.

Quote:
Ok trade off, it could end up on your DPF, IF your engine burns oil excessively.
Hm, why not just use standard, high ash oil then if ashing a DPF is only a threat if your engine "burns oil excessively"? Seems like that would save money, have better lubrication properties (that's what ash is, of course), etc.

Quote:
Given this trade off, i'd rather protect the engine than the DPF. Everyone else looks at it the other way around, I just use common sense.
Hm, that does seem like a reasonable triage, given I expect to eventually hack off the DPF and reflash... albeit years from now when my extended service contract expires.

Quote:
only regenned twice in 23k.
On this matter you are incorrect. There is no way your Jeep has gone 23k with only two regens unless you were towing it 98% of that distance.

Did you mean to say you only saw two active regen messages ("Drive at Highway Speeds")? I guess that would be reasonable.

I have seen zero of these regen messages in 11k miles so far, quite incongruously given my typical pattern of short hop driving in-city, but OBD sensor data has indicated quite a few "silent regens" in that distance. Regens are a function of soot, and soot will accumulate in your DPF and require periodic regen unless you are filling your tank with the tears of angels rather than diesel. Normally this all happens behind the scenes and the only way to guess it is happening is that your fuel efficiency drops for about 10 minutes.

Ash in the DPF is a separate concern and is more like chronic bronchitis COPD, whereas soot accumulation is the expected mode of operation and it burns off without a remnant during a regen.

Quote:
Mobil1 ESP has around 75 ppm of moly in its additive package.
I'll have to take your word for that because moly isn't mentioned at all on the datasheet and I couldn't find any reference to it elsewhere.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:39 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
Hm, why not just use standard, high ash oil then if ashing a DPF is only a threat if your engine "burns oil excessively"? Seems like that would save money, have better lubrication properties (that's what ash is, of course), etc.
I used Shell Rotella T5, close enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
On this matter you are incorrect. There is no way your Jeep has gone 23k with only two regens unless you were towing it 98% of that distance.

Did you mean to say you only saw two active regen messages ("Drive at Highway Speeds")? I guess that would be reasonable.

I have seen zero of these regen messages in 11k miles so far, quite incongruously given my typical pattern of short hop driving in-city, but OBD sensor data has indicated quite a few "silent regens" in that distance. Regens are a function of soot, and soot will accumulate in your DPF and require periodic regen unless you are filling your tank with the tears of angels rather than diesel. Normally this all happens behind the scenes and the only way to guess it is happening is that your fuel efficiency drops for about 10 minutes.

Ash in the DPF is a separate concern and is more like chronic bronchitis COPD, whereas soot accumulation is the expected mode of operation and it burns off without a remnant during a regen.
Right from the manual

"Residue remains inside the DPF in the form of non burnable ash. Ash comes from the oils and other materials that are trapped in the oils and are present in the soot. Ash is not eliminated by the regeneration cycle. Excessive ash accumulation requires the replacement of the DPF. "

Basically my point is if ash built up excessively, you would see active regen's more frequently. The DPF wouldn't be able to hold as much soot if it had Ash accumulation.

Keep in mind all oils have Zinc/Phosphorus (unless you have an EMD) and Ash % just some have less than others. CJ4 oil is 1% ash vs. .6% for 229.51.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
I'll have to take your word for that because moly isn't mentioned at all on the datasheet and I couldn't find any reference to it elsewhere.
Typically the additive package is not listed on the spec sheet, heres a recent UOA with Mobil1 ESP oil; shows 80 ppm molybendenum.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byi...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:11 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Quote:
Originally Posted by C175 View Post
Basically my point is if ash built up excessively, you would see active regen's more frequently. The DPF wouldn't be able to hold as much soot if it had Ash accumulation.

Keep in mind all oils have Zinc/Phosphorus (unless you have an EMD) and Ash % just some have less than others. CJ4 oil is 1% ash vs. .6% for 229.51.
Oh, I definitely understand how this "disease process" works. I don't necessarily agree that you would be seeing more active regen messages given that the overwhelming preponderance of regens are silent without any user-perceptible indication besides a ~10 minute drop in fuel efficiency at highway speeds. So, my point is that someone with a poisoned DPF would see a drop in fuel economy rather than seeing more active regen messages.

Furthermore, I also question whether a "high ash" oil (or creating the equivalent with additives) would cause your DPF to become seriously ashed in the first 10,000 miles. Claiming the opposite seems like asserting tobacco smoking doesn't cause cancer because 18 year olds who started smoking a year ago don't have a higher cancer rate than the rest of the population. That is to say, I presume these kinds of problems would be a longer-term issue.

We could probably do back of the envelope calcs of how much potential ash is in each quart of a given oil type, estimate the surface area of the DPF, and estimate how much engine oil makes it to the DPF during operation. Without any hard science backing my presumption up, the product of those estimates seems it would be "low" per engine-hour of operation. Therefore, it seems like it would take quite some time to poison the DPF even with regular, "high ash" oil. Of course, I could be wrong.

Quote:
heres a recent UOA with Mobil1 ESP oil; shows 80 ppm molybendenum.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byi...ew?usp=sharing
Thanks. Obviously, Mobil 1 ESP has the MS-11106 cert so whatever is in it must be acceptable by definition.

Too bad the additives aren't disclosed; to me that seems like requiring food manufacturers to list the ingredients on the packageómore information is a good thing.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:00 PM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Why people feel the need to use incorrect viscosity oils which are unspecified by the manufacturer during their warranty period is beyond me.

Why even go there while under warranty!
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

Quote:
Originally Posted by C175 View Post
I'm at 23,000 miles, 15,000 of those miles with CJ4 oil, only regenned twice in 23k. Appears my DPF is in good condition.
Your vehicle regens every 150 to 300 miles...period. What you saw was an 80% full forced regen warning. I have 30k miles and have never had that EVIC message. I use the suggested oil.

This may have nothing to do with oil as driving habits that dont allow a normal regen will cause your DPF to reach the 80% mandatory regen point. If you know that you are driving with frequent highway usage and see the message, I would suspect oil could be related. It is well documented that oil type is critical to DPF health and yes, it is a comprimise with optimal engine life.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:57 AM
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Re: Blackstone UOA - Rotella T5

At almost 14k miles, I have never seen a regen message. I also do a quick EVIC check on the DEF level and have seen it drop slowly, almost exactly "in time" with the mileage.
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