Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle. - Page 4 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #37  
Old 05-04-2015, 06:24 PM
Rocksfly's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern Tasmania
Posts: 320
Thanks: 29
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 2033
Rocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

The only reference I can find to any sort of pill other than plugging leaks, is this.....................

Mercedes is an easy-to-understand example of why you shouldn’t change types of extended-life coolants. Mercedes’ coolant jug contains a silica gel bag (yes, something similar to the packets designed to absorb moisture in camera cases, etc.). However, with a coolant containing silicate inhibitors, the silica gel helps maintain a stable level of silicate protection over the years. Mercedes has long used the silica gel bag, and the protection level is supported by field experience. The packet is built into the jug and is a life-of-the-car item.

Benn in touch with Ser Mgr this morning and asked for written info from Jeep Australia or Chrysler on there explanation of a Pressure Leak Down Pill, what is its purpose, how long does it last, is it only some random test vehicles or did everyone get a Pill? Whats the likelyhood of long term damage as one client in Oz had a oil cooling core replaced as at the time Dealer did not know what was causing it.

So hopefully today we will learn more about the 'Secret Mens Business' that goes on with Chrysler/Jeep.

Cheers.

__________________
Sent from my Newman N2
Via JeepGarage /Taptalk.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #38  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:48 PM
Rocksfly's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern Tasmania
Posts: 320
Thanks: 29
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 2033
Rocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond repute
Data Spec sheets for HOAT and OAT Chrysler Coolants.

Can someone in the know post links to spec data sheets for the old HOAT pink coolant and the newer purple OAT.

Having the coolant tested to determine product which was put in MY14 JGC before it left factory.

Also I can not find any info or anyone who has ever heard of a Coolant Pressure Leak Down Test Pill.
__________________
Sent from my Newman N2
Via JeepGarage /Taptalk.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-09-2015, 02:12 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jeanieramsey61 is on a distinguished road
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

Wtf
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #40  
Old 05-12-2015, 07:05 AM
Rocksfly's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern Tasmania
Posts: 320
Thanks: 29
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 2033
Rocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

So the story so far................

Chrysler and other manufacturers put STOP LEAK PILLS in the coolant bottles of many of their models.
One of the Wrangler forums has lots of history, photographic and otherwise inclusive of a COOLANT ANALYSIS document, test results on a sample of coolant that had particulate matter which settled and would likely become sludge.
Engineers report stated the SLIME is the result of the STOP LEAK PILLS, his OAT coolant was near new and worryingly he had some 219 ppmof Aliminium. I believe the engineer said anything over 20 would be cause for concern.

I have heard claims that its a mixing of OAT and HOAT, claims this has happened at the factory on a large scale, admissions by Chrysler employees that it is so. Further, that Fiat OAT was dyed PURPLE at the factory to stop the confusion of the HOAT to OAT changeover.

Further to this the MOPAR packaging of the coolants is crazy and further adds to the confusion especially for workshop technicians who make judgement calls about colour.

The PURPLE OAT is said to lose its colour and look more pinkish over time.

More confusion in that there are FACTORY PINK OAT and DEALER PURPLE OAT. It is claimed we all got the the FACTORY PINK OAT, which is the stuff that got DYED PURPLE, maybe, maybe not.

Read a bunch of non related JEEP FORUMS and this issue of the brown sludge coming from the FACTORY OAT, is said to be STOP LEAK PILLS, placed in the vehicle because small leaks are hard to service (little room in engine bay and extensive cooling system components) in the first year. So the use a pill to bog up any of these potential leaks.

Now they may do a PRESSURE LEAK DOWN TEST on every vehicle and if it fails bung in 2 X PILLS

HOWEVER, to call it a COOLANT PRESSURE LEAK DOWN TEST PILL is a stretch.

Again, the use of these pills is claimed to protect the system while the OAT is taking its 5000 miles to start to effectively protect the engine.

Some claim the sludge is part of the process of that protection.

There are STAR CASES i believe dating back to the mid 2000's to do with sludge in the coolant. Instructions to Dealers on how to test heaters to determine if the SLUDGE has blocked the heater core or other components.
If that be the case they pull your dash out and mess with a bunch of stuff including your oil cooler, radiator and associated plumbing.

Some folk over the years have had work done as a result of the Star Cases and the TSB's and others have been sent away and done their own Coolant system clean out. Depending on the Dealer, depends on how thoroughly or correctly they clean and refill the system.

Many folks have had recurring sludge, those that do are some times accessed as having a reaction to the flux/soldering of aluminium coolers with the OAT. So there has been a problem with supply of some of these components.

BROWN SLUDGE, why?
Mixing of OAT/HOAT
Stop Leak Pills
Sand Castings
Bad flux/solder components

The Engineer that stated it was the Stop Leak Pills was the Key Note Speaker at some conference to do with Coolants and the Head Coolant Engineer from Chrysler was at the conference. They chatted about this issue and the STOP LEAK PILLS was said to be the culprit.

Why then do some coolants change colour and others dont appear to?
Both engineers agreed they do change colour.

Mixing of OAT and HOAT results incongealled floaties.

Sand castings fine particulate peppered...". Casting sand sediment is an old issue and will not damage the cooling system - per Engineer"

Bad flux solder components ..."There's a process that's being used when manufacturing aluminum heat exchangers. They spray flux on the aluminum in order to get a good bond during the brazing, soldering or whatever process is used for bonding. They either spray too much or not enough flux.. too much will clog the heat exchanger. Too little will leave voids with exposed aluminum and the HOAT antifreeze will coorode these areas and cause leaks. The Fiat Chrysler OAT antifreeze doesn't contain the silicates that causes this chemical reaction with aluminum."

To Conclude.

I dont believe mine was sand castings. Mine looks like the sludge formed from those Stop Leak Pills. They are made from crushed walnut shells and ginger, plugging microscopic holes and tiny leaks, when exposed to air. My sample does not have congealled floaties. The coolant was essentially clear with minimum amount of sediment, with the brown sludge lining the walls of my coolant bottle.
Both left and right side heater vents pump out the same temp hot air at MAX TEMP and HALF FAN SPEED.
No overheating issues.
No problems with the oil.
No problems with the Transmission.

I will likely get the coolant tested to eliminate the possibility of it having been mixed and due to the high aluminium level recored in one US test sample on a V6 Penstar out of a Wrangler, I would like to have the contaminants test done also. But the key for me is to eliminate the OAT/HOAT mixing senario as my engine is at 29,000km.

The Dealership acted quickly to look at the coolant and open a case with Jeep Australia and the word came back from them about the PRESSURE LEAK DOWN TEST PILL.

What to believe?

That's up to you folks. I find it hard to believe that Dealers claim they have never heard of or seen the problem before. If that's the case Chrysler is keeping information from them. Its crazy because you save so much time and money by being ahead of the game and prepared. They just seem to treat each case as if its the first one ever and there is obviously a lot of history around with CHRYSLER knowing full well what is going on.

What a major head #@$*.

Luv my JGC MY14

Keep an eye on your coolant bottle.

Cheers,

Rocksfly
__________________
Sent from my Newman N2
Via JeepGarage /Taptalk.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-12-2015, 02:43 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 6.4L SRT8 WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 233
Thanks: 10
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 1314
theweavman is on a distinguished road
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

Good info and research, thanks....
I agree that its one of those issues that we may never get true clarity on,
I just drained my system, cleaned up the sludge from the overflow bottle, ran clear water thru my system for about 30 mins, drained it and put in fresh Purple Mopar OAT pre mixed coolant in, and I will hope for the best
__________________
So it is written, So shall it be done !
Theweavman
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-12-2015, 03:06 PM
champagneinhand's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2016 3.2L KL
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Upstate Western NY State
Posts: 243
Thanks: 35
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 1543
champagneinhand is on a distinguished road
Garage
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

The dealerships are quite clueless and usually tell you what they think you will accept. I took my 2011 WK2 with Pentastar in for a full coolant system drain and flush and I specifically brought in 2 gallons of distiller water because of the areas faucet water being very hard with calcium and magnesium. They even wrote this down as the 2 gallon jugs sat on the seat, yet the service was done and the water jugs unused still sat in the seat. I was baffled. They used the orange coolant but I've had no issues with overheating or very cold starts. Still just the bad communication between the service intake people and the tech performing the service is just poor and makes the Jeep dealer look like some 2 bit outfit like jiffy lube of pep boys. I will not be using that dealer again. I'm changing my fluids every 2-3 years because of loss of corrosion protection in aluminum alloy engines. It's worth the extra money and it's in all alloy engines rather than just FIAT/Chrysler motors. The long lasting is a compromise which I'm not willing to take. Replacing engine parts, gaskets and such to go a few more years without a drain of the coolant is ridiculous. The 2011 WK2 V6 comes with the orange stuff. Why all the change when the dark green non-HOAT/OAT Coolant worked really well? I know that coolant is now considered a hazardous material but so is used motor oil and its recyclable, just as oil is.

For those of you with the HEMI V8s, I would be really chapped by all these different answers and excuses. My fathers older GMC had constant issues with the aluminum radiator and small leaks and never worked right once they decided to replace the radiator and heating core.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-12-2015, 04:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 120
Thanks: 4
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 1326
C175 is on a distinguished road
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

OAT coolant leaks very easily because it doesn't contain silicates. HOAT coolant G05 contains silicates and nitrites, depending on the formulation. Ie motocraft gold coolant is G05 without nitrite. I don't believe you will have a catastrophic reaction by mixing G05 (Glysatin inhibitor) and OAT I'm assuming Carboxylic Acid inhibitor. Basically you can get off color mixture, the colors are dye, the inhibitor won't last as long. I wouldn't expect slime build up from mixing those coolants, I'd avoid mixing coolant if possible.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-12-2015, 09:35 PM
Raptor's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 821
Thanks: 7
Thanked 70 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 328765
Raptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond reputeRaptor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C175 View Post
OAT coolant leaks very easily because it doesn't contain silicates. HOAT coolant G05 contains silicates and nitrites, depending on the formulation. Ie motocraft gold coolant is G05 without nitrite. I don't believe you will have a catastrophic reaction by mixing G05 (Glysatin inhibitor) and OAT I'm assuming Carboxylic Acid inhibitor. Basically you can get off color mixture, the colors are dye, the inhibitor won't last as long. I wouldn't expect slime build up from mixing those coolants, I'd avoid mixing coolant if possible.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
What!! Mixing HOAT with OAT will lead to disaster! Don't do it!!!!

GO-5 is the European spec for a HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) type coolant which should never be mixed with an OAT (Organic Acid Technology) type coolant. The HOAT coolant contains some silicates in it while the OAT does not. These two ethylene glycol coolants have two completely different chemical corrosion inhibitor packages in them and they are not compatible with each other! Sludge and major cooling system problems will result if they are mixed together, which is probably why the OP started this thread to begin with!

Chrysler, due to their relationship with Mercedes at the time, had used HOAT type coolants (dyed orange or pink depending on the supplier) exclusively from about 2001 ~ 2013. Then Chrysler, due to their relationship with Fiat, began to spec a DexCool like OAT type coolant (dyed purple) after that from model year 2013 & up. Before that good old green IAT type coolant was spec'd in the model years 2000 & down.

More info here;

New $$$ coolant required for 2013 model year vehicles

Is this radiator gunk normal? - JeepForum.com
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-13-2015, 02:34 AM
Rocksfly's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern Tasmania
Posts: 320
Thanks: 29
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 2033
Rocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond reputeRocksfly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

Yeah, what Raptor said +1.

The possibility that the wrong coolant (HOAT) may have been in from factory and topped off by Dealer with (OAT) was indeed why I started this thread, in an endeavour to ascertain more info and how wide spread the issue is.

NEVER MIX OAT with anything else. Use PURPLE OAT Mopar product to be sure.

As stated the Dealer was right onto this and opened a Case with Jeep Australia as I wanted everything Documented.

Now, I did read that anything up to 5% cross mixed could be OK but that was one single reference out of hundreds of references saying NEVER MIX the IAT or HOAT with the OAT.

It is also clearly stated to not mix in the warranty handbook, so DONT MIX them. Or else all the protective agents drop out of solution and now your engine is a ticking timebomb along with the cooling system.

Anyway, thanks to those that contributed to my research and additional posts.

Cheers,

Rocksfly.
__________________
Sent from my Newman N2
Via JeepGarage /Taptalk.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:47 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 321
Thanks: 39
Thanked 48 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 1698
chocco is on a distinguished road
Re: Brown sludge scum in coolant bottle.

I was installing my catchcan yesterday and noticed brown sludge, scooped it out with my finger. I remembered this thread, the end result is still no idea ??
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:50 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 321
Thanks: 39
Thanked 48 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 1698
chocco is on a distinguished road
Forgot pics.



ForumRunner_20150523_105001.png



ForumRunner_20150523_105019.png
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-23-2015, 04:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,352
Thanks: 49
Thanked 176 Times in 139 Posts
Rep Power: 17577
Roadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond reputeRoadkill has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coolant changes colour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocksfly View Post
Check this out.
So, this coolant ages like a fine wine? I'm glad to see your image because my coolant, while sludge-free, looks neither orange nor purple. Mine is slightly more orange than your second image but then again it's 18 months old now (factory fill on a Dec 2013 build).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Excessive Sludge" RSXLRNT Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 11 05-22-2014 02:38 PM
Coolant bottle shield TonyTJ Interior/Exterior/Visual/Lighting 0 05-05-2014 07:45 AM
Bottle-Cap-Popping-Like Noise Da_1388 Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 13 11-23-2012 05:54 PM
4.7 oil filler cap sludge problems emtclark Troubleshooting/Problems 8 04-11-2011 10:27 PM
Oil sludge problem 4.7 Frango100 Engine Performance/Intake/Exhaust 10 09-17-2010 09:56 PM

» Premium Vendor Showcase
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.