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Convince me as to why I want a diesel

17K views 98 replies 45 participants last post by  metoo 
#1 ·
Been thinking of trading my '12 for a '14 Summit. I noticed that my dealer has a few with the diesel option. I don't two anything. Why would I want the diesel? While I know that the mileage in the diesel is better, spending an extra $5000. and then 80-90 cents per gallon extra just to get 4 mpg is ridiculous imho.

I always thought of a diesel in a heavy duty truck like maybe a 2500 or 3500 pickup. Why would anyone want one in a GC?

I'm not just trying to start a flame. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
#2 ·
You want towing power

You want low RPM torque even if that means giving up sheer power output to the Hemi at higher speeds

You want an engine that probably will outlast the chassis

You have extra money and are on a first name basis with Gale Banks

You want to have to refill the Urea dispenser so it doesn't go into limp mode

You like hanging around with truck drivers a la Hank Hill
 
#7 · (Edited)
Adding 4 more reasons to the above top 6 to make a total of 10 reasons!

You want to complain about DPF regen process or frequency.

You enjoy owning a vehicle that only a few dealers know how to repair or troubleshoot.

You enjoy high repair bills when warranty is up.

You take pleasure in seeing diesel fuel spilled on your vehicle and fuel pump handle.

Don't get me wrong, I do not regret the CRD purchase I made, but you need to do the research. :)
 
#4 ·
You can't beat a diesel for low rpm torque combined with decent mpg's and towing ability and usually longevity. Since I don't tow and the price difference is about 70 cents per gallon here, it wasn't for me. However, I'm glad it's offered as an optional drivetrain.
 
#5 ·
I got 25mpg on my last tank driving around town in mixed traffic. Better mileage is just one reason I got the diesel. I didn't know if I would do much towing, but now that I have it I am. Last week I rented a trailer and made a 300 mile round trip to pick up a (diesel) tractor. Even on that trip I got 24mpg and hardly knew I was pulling anything. We are also renting a 29' camping trailer to pull behind my Summit for a couple trips this summer. I don't think I'd try pulling that with the V6. My buddy has the hemi which pulls his trailer fine, but I've got more torque and nearly 50% better economy. So it is probably better to compare the diesel to the hemi, it is less than a $2000 difference if I recall. The diesel is also more environmentally friendly, which is important to me. Better resale is another reason, but I'm planning on keeping this a loonnngggg time. The premium for the diesel engine isn't much per year if you keep it 10 years. Those are my reasons and experiences. I'd make the same decision again.
 
#9 ·
Diesel option is about 4005 bucks more if you are buying smart. Hemi is what 2600 more not sure what invoice is.
Fuel prices here are equal with high test. You mean to tell me you run regular with a Hemi? Uh huh.

You either get it with a diesel or not. If the JGC didn't have this diesel option I would have bought another Outback as the room inside is the same.

I bought the diesel for three reasons:
I keep my vehicles a long time 12 years or more
I like the 27.5 mpg I get my my diesel
I need the range of around 600 miles

Both places I live have diesel available at about 1 out of 3 stations so for me it isn't an issue. Never been to a truck stop with this diesel yet.

If you don't have need for the diesel regarding towing, range and fuel economy and are a person that trades or sells cars when they are 4-5 years old at 100K miles or less the diesel makes no sense.

I love the Hemi sound and power but the fuel mileage stinks. The 3.6 isn't a bad engine at all but it doesn't actually get up and go like either the diesel or the Hemi. If you can live with the 3.6L engine it isn't a bad way to go at all...
 
#39 ·
The Hemi recommend midgrade, and even notes that premium is not recommended.
The OM does note that regular can be used at some loss in performance.

The Hemi mileage isn't that much less than the V6 unless you regularly walk on high radiation ground and therefore wear lead shoes all the time.

I'd agree that if you live in fairly congested areas and rarely drive on western mountain freeways, with occasional tow, that the V6 is probably more suited for this, and will definitely keep up with traffic even out where the speed limit is 80--just not as effortlessly as the Hemi. It would fail the "I-70 Test" in my book, but so would a stock diesel without some love from Gale Banks...
 
#10 ·
The regen has never bothered me, with the advent of the diesel pickup the dealers will soon be quite familiar with the maintenance and repairs, I have no idea where you are getting high repair costs from because no diesel I have ever owned has had higher repair costs than their gas counterparts. They have all been less.

As to why someone should get one, there are several reasons but here IMO are the primary reasons why someone might be wanting to take one for a test drive.

They want it just because. Yeah, some folks like diesels for the way they drive and this in my experience is best in heavy vehicles like the GC, light trucks, etc. which play most to a diesels strength.

You're going to use the vehicle to tow. Ask anyone who has towed with both gas and diesel and I think you will find a clear consensus as to which does it better.

You like the feel of a V8 but don't like paying the piper at the pump. While the diesel GC will not produce the numbers of the Hemi it does give a satisfying feel of locomotive like thrust that is nice to have under your right foot.

As to return on investment a prospective buyer should be looking at real data and comparing actual cars and their all in costs.

For me when getting a summit the diesel was only a 1305 dollar increase over the hemi I would have otherwise purchased. I'll easily get my money back and then some based on actual costs. This wouldn't have been true if I was going to get the pentastar but that was never an option for me as I tow.

When you're looking at those actual costs you need to consider the way you drive and then look at real numbers and make an honest estimate of where you are going to fall in that spread. If you're the type that drives with the hammer down its silly to compare your numbers to those of people who are super adept at going for the hyper mileage. As to where you get those numbers there are a number of phone apps that track and now (can) report real numbers from the pump and these can be seen online. I think you will find that the average pentastar owner is facing a larger than 4 mpg gap when real mileage is used.

This is the only post I'm going to make here, these threads have a tendency to degenerate into a worthless mass of fanboys trying to sell their agenda. Plus I've been told I'm too hardcore and need to let go. Whatever you do first test drive a diesel and see if you like it or not. Then look at the money using real figures. I'm doubtful based on your description that you can make a money case for the diesel, you're going to have to want it. Drive one and I think you just may be surprised to find that you do.
 
#14 ·
Gunny, you do not even have your GC, yet.
 
#13 ·
Been thinking of trading my '12 for a '14 Summit. I noticed that my dealer has a few with the diesel option. I don't two anything. Why would I want the diesel? While I know that the mileage in the diesel is better, spending an extra $5000. and then 80-90 cents per gallon extra just to get 4 mpg is ridiculous imho.

I always thought of a diesel in a heavy duty truck like maybe a 2500 or 3500 pickup. Why would anyone want one in a GC?

I'm not just trying to start a flame. Maybe I'm missing something.
Just drive one and you will know
 
#16 · (Edited)
There are a lot of good ideas in the previous responses. The one thing to consider is how you drive. If you are not consistently doing at least 20 mile trips, forget it. The diesel is NOT for 2-3 mile short trips. Although I have had second thoughts since ordering, as I found out more about the diesel, in the end I am sure I will be happy. Most of my second thoughts turned out to be for no reason. My situation, 30 minute drives with 20 on highway, going to keep JGC for long time, want the mileage, because I want it. It did spreadsheets to compare the costs of all three with pricing as I would order, at less than 75000 miles I will come out ahead.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm still trying to figure out all these "higher maintenance" naysayers....sure, an oil change is $90 or so. But...it's every 10k miles. My gassers get a LOF every 3k - at $30/each. Sounds like a wash to me.

Tuneup? It's called a fuel filter. No plugs. No wires. No cap/rotor/coils.

DEF? $17 to fill the tank at a Flying J pump, no harder than pumping fuel, and its not like you have to do it every week.

And diesel price? Do the math. Don't look at dollars per gallon - look at dollars per MILE. If you're comparing to a Hemi...as noted above, most Hemi owners don't run 87 octane. Do a real comparison.

Toss on top of all that, diesel longevity. LOOK at how the 3.0 is built - SIX BOLT MAINS. Girdle bottom end - not individual main caps, but a single girdle...and each main bearing STILL HAS SIX BOLTS. Rod caps are so beefy they had to put the seams at an angle because having them at a 90 to the rod...wouldn't let them fit in the cylinder bore. Just like the venerable Cummins. This is a serious motor. My Cummins has 225k on it...and I should probably do the first valve adjustment this summer. Sometime. If I get time. I did put a fuel filter on it at 220k. Other than that it's been...drive...fuel...tow heavy...repeat.

Diesels run cleaner now than gassers. Quieter. More torque. More real-world driveable - if you want to drag-race every stoplight, get an SRT gasser. If you want a durable, superior designed internal combustion engine (Europeans figured it out decades ago - diesel is light years ahead of gassers)...go drive a diesel with an open mind.

If you aren't willing to open your mind to something completely different (and a diesel IS a completely different animal, don't let anyone tell you otherwise)...get a gasser.

Just remember - a diesel is "different". Not "worse". And they're no longer stinky, smoky, noisy beasts. Try one. You might like it.
 
#19 ·
I'm still trying to figure out all these "higher maintenance" naysayers....sure, an oil change is $90 or so. But...it's every 10k miles. My gassers get a LOF every 3k - at $30/each. Sounds like a wash to me.
Most of your post makes a good case for the diesel. But today's gas engines can mostly go 10,000 between oil changes. You can choose to do them at 3,000, but that's just a choice.

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#20 ·
...still offset by the fuel-filter-versus-tuneup-cost ratio...but if folks want to debate, they can debate. I've owned gassers and I've owned diesels, and hands down the diesels cost less to own and operate overall.

The other factor is, they're less mechanically-stressed. MUCH lower EGT's compared to a gasser. Lower cylinder temps. More even temperature zones throughout the block/head assemblies. Lower overall operating temps - whens the last time you saw a gasser with a cold front grille blocker in winter, or heard a gasser owner bitching about "my engine won't warm up"? Diesels are, in the purest form, a more efficient engine and I'm thrilled that the US is finally starting to offer more oil burner options :)
 
#21 ·
...still offset by the fuel-filter-versus-tuneup-cost ratio...but if folks want to debate, they can debate. I've owned gassers and I've owned diesels, and hands down the diesels cost less to own and operate overall.
I'm not debating which is better. But tune-ups on a gas engine, including the Hemi is not like the old days. Even the 16 plugs in the Hemi now only need to be changed every 100,000 miles.

I don't keep a car long enough to do anything but oil changes, so I'm glad we still have choices. And it is great that we are both happy with the choices we made.

---
 
#22 ·
.....and develops max torque at only 2,000 rpm.
If you need to ask "why" you would want one, then get a hemi.
 
#23 ·
You buy it for the torque delivery, not only for towing, but a full load of passengers and camping gear adds up, the diesel drives like there's nothing there.

That extra torque is very useful off road too. Here in Oz the diesels hold their resale value much better too, but that probably doesn't apply in the states.

As others have said, drive it and you will know. The hemi would be my 2nd pick.
 
#24 ·
The EPA estimate is 8 MPG advantage to the ecodiesel for highway mileage. The number of hemi drivers who get anywhere close to the EPA estimate is very small since you need a very light foot on the accelerator. Even when I tried with my 2008 CRD, I couldn't drop the mileage below 20 MPG when I normally averaged around 21 or 22 depending on traffic. For comparison, the ecodiesel averages around 26 MPG on the same commute. I've started driving with the eco mode off and the mileage today was just over 27 MPG. The last V8 we had a was 2002 Grand Cherokee with the 5.9 liter and I was lucky to get 14 MPG.


Been thinking of trading my '12 for a '14 Summit. I noticed that my dealer has a few with the diesel option. I don't two anything. Why would I want the diesel? While I know that the mileage in the diesel is better, spending an extra $5000. and then 80-90 cents per gallon extra just to get 4 mpg is ridiculous imho.

I always thought of a diesel in a heavy duty truck like maybe a 2500 or 3500 pickup. Why would anyone want one in a GC?

I'm not just trying to start a flame. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
#26 ·
The EPA estimate is 8 MPG advantage to the ecodiesel for highway mileage. The number of hemi drivers who get anywhere close to the EPA estimate is very small since you need a very light foot on the accelerator. Even when I tried with my 2008 CRD, I couldn't drop the mileage below 20 MPG when I normally averaged around 21 or 22 depending on traffic. For comparison, the ecodiesel averages around 26 MPG on the same commute. I've started driving with the eco mode off and the mileage today was just over 27 MPG. The last V8 we had a was 2002 Grand Cherokee with the 5.9 liter and I was lucky to get 14 MPG.

That 8 mpg estimate is between the Hemi and diesel. The epa estimate between the 6 and diesel is only four. I was leaning towards the six as imho it has more than enough power in my '12.
 
#27 ·
Many thanks to all those who responded to my original query. While it is evident that a diesel is much stronger, will last much longer, and has more torque, since I don't tow and generally trade my vehicle every couple of years, I see no reason to justify the additional $5,000 expense. For those touting the better gas mileage, when there is only a 4 mpg difference between the 6 and diesel, and a price per gallon difference of 80-90 cents for the diesel, simple math tells me that it's not worth the price no matter what spin you place on it.

Again, thank you for your input.
 
#30 ·
JeepGrady,

Worth is just a matter of perspective mate and justification is in the eye of the beholder....

The simple fact that you needed to ask the question answers the question.

Enjoy your JGC, as we all enjoy our own rides, gas or diesel :thumbsup:.
 
#33 ·
10. Torque, torque, torque
9. Turbo power - and lots of it
8. LESS annual maintenance costs
7. Better mpg
6. Towing
5. Engine will last longer
4. Better resale
3. The looks I get while fueling the Jeep
2. Torque, torque, torque (it needed to be said again)
1. Because I wanted it

It is a decision only you can make, but I do not know anyone who regrets getting their Ecodiesel.
 
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#34 ·
10. Torque, torque, torque
9. Turbo power - and lots of it
8. LESS annual maintenance costs
7. Better mpg
6. Towing
5. Engine will last longer
4. Better resale
3. The looks I get while fueling the Jeep
2. Torque, torque, torque (it needed to be said again)
1. Because I wanted it

It is a decision only you can make, but I do not know anyone who regrets getting their Ecodiesel.
Do you expect the retained value percentage to be higher, or just a matter of getting more for a more expensive car? I expect a Summit will have a higher resale value than my Overland, but don't see that as a real benefit.

I realize that this being the first year with this drivetrain in the US, everything will be a guess, but would like to hear what you think.


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#35 ·
I have always gotten close to the epa numbers on all of my vehicles. Assuming that's true, let's do the math.

With the six: Take the 25 gallon tank X $3.60, what I pay for regular= $90.00 to fill it up. Take the 25 X 24 which is the epa estimate= 600 miles per tank. $90.00 divided by 600 equals 15 cents per mile.

Now with the diesel: 25 X $4.45 which is the average cost where I live, + $111.25. 25 gallons X 28, the epa number= 700 miles per tank. $111.25 divided by 700 equals 16 cents per mile.

So as you can see, even though the diesel will get better mileage, in the end it's a wash. There is no financial gain fuel wise with the diesel.
 
#43 ·
There has already been calculations done by car and driver (I believe) and the break even point will occur around 35000 miles. After that, it is money in your pocket.

Do you expect the retained value percentage to be higher, or just a matter of getting more for a more expensive car? I expect a Summit will have a higher resale value than my Overland, but don't see that as a real benefit.

I realize that this being the first year with this drivetrain in the US, everything will be a guess, but would like to hear what you think.


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The diesel will always have a higher resale over the gas, as the engine has a much longer lifespan. How much higher in resale is anybody's guess, but I got if for the towing and MPG. I am guessing the resale will recoup at least half of the cost of the upgrade, but that is only a guess.
 
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#36 ·
You've got some expensive diesel! The delta close to me is about 30 cents. $3.55/$3.75/$3.85 for gas and $3.85 for diesel.

As always, fuel costs are so variable (driving habits that effect MPG, and your locality's fuel prices).
 
#38 ·
I think you would have to do some magic to get 24MPG with the gas engine in my part of the country where it is a little hilly. Measured at the pump while on winter fuel I have exceeded 28 MPG on every week where the temp was not down below 20 degrees all week. With warm weather and summer fuel I am sure that I will be over 30 MPG. On the flats in the winter my Son got 30 MPG and he is not easy on the pedal.

I am not convinced that maintenance is much less until you start hitting over 100K where the diesel is just finally breaking in.

But where the diesel really comes out ahead is if you consider the life of a diesel compared to a gas engine vehicle.

Things I especially like is the ability to easily accelerate even on the highway with only slightly more pressure on the pedal. No more pushing the pedal to the floor and hearing the engine sound like a blender on Hi yet a barely perceptible increase in speed and this gets worse when you try to do this on a long incline with a vehicle full of people.

Stop and go traffic in the summer. The diesel engine is so efficient that all the energy goes into moving your vehicle and not into making your engine hot. So the upside is that when it is hot and you get stuck in traffic you do not have to worry about your engine overheating even though you have the AC on. On the flip side if you get stuck in traffic and it is really cold out your engine temp is going to drop.

For me I love the torque and how a slight press on the pedal releases it.

If the OP lives where it is totally flat a lot of the benefits of diesel are not so noticeable but if you live where you are either going up or down gas vehicles just do not do it for me.

While everyone needs to do what they think is best I would suggest that he take one for a ride. 12 years ago I was looking for a car and by chance the salesman suggested I try the Jetta Diesel. I knew I was not interested but gave it a go and that was the end for me. I had a high mileage car that could not get out of its own way and still got significantly less than the Jetta got. I spent 286K in that vehicle and 86K in a newer Jetta before this became available. Even with Diesel it is right in line with a lot of the other SUV's that are comparably equipped so to me it is a no brainer. The newer Diesels are vastly more user friendly than the old ones and no matter what numbers you put in the spreadsheet the difference has to be pretty large to ever overcome how great it feels to drive a diesel engine.

And I think that if you find a vehicle that will have the same fuel cost per mile as a diesel you will not be very satisfied with how that vehicle performs in comparison.
 
#47 · (Edited)
One factor not often mentioned in the comparison is the lack of lifetime warranty available on the diesel (I think that's still true right?) Having the extra protection from large repair bills was a big factor in my decision to go with the 3.6 instead of diesel. Not sure how you quantify insurance in a compare but depending on how things go it could be a big cost saver after 100k miles.
 
#48 ·
To be fair, averaging all consumers, insurance and extended warranties are not a cost saver but a cost controller. Otherwise, the providers would go broke! You are agreeing to a fixed cost up front to cost average a potentially larger repair bill later. Its a good idea and I wish I had the option.

I have owned 7 diesel vehicles over the years with 3 of them still in my possession with over 200k on them. I've never had an issue I didn't fix myself...all minor stuff like dry rotted hoses and orings. I've also had 2 gas motors I had to replace. So far, I'm still sold on the reliability until I experience anything different.
 
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