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Old 03-08-2014, 01:45 AM
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Diesel drawbacks

I've been eyeing the new JGC's in anticipation of my lease on a '12 Limited hemi coming up in a few months. I really like the idea of a diesel...basically V8 power with the economy of a 6 cyl. But I've never owned a diesel and I have no idea what's involved, so I've been lurking this forum. I know forums give the impression of a higher incidence problems than is normal, but I have to say these diesels seem pretty high maintainance.

As an owner of a diesel GC you have to worry about DEF running out, getting too cold, not regen'ing fast enough. The car might not start in cold weather. Yeah yeah, just plug it in, we'll that's not always an option when I'm away from home. Have to let the car warm up and cool down idling in your driveway. Oil needs to be some special and uncommon formula. Stealership mechanics probably don't know how to work on diesels. Did I leave anything out?

So while a diesel GC sounds really cool, gas engines don't seem to have those issues, or not to the same extent. I don't want to have to spend hours per month dealing with the idiosyncrasies of my car's drivetrain. If I wanted to deal with car drama like that I'd buy a Range Rover. Am I reading too much into this?? Is it not that big of a deal?
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:22 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

you are thinking way to much into it. I have yet to have any issues with it being to cold for it to start. Here it has been the coldest this year is -5. The oil you can pick up from the dealership for a very reasonable price. You really only need to let the vehicle idle if you tow heavy into your driveway other wise the drive up your driveway or a block or two thru your neighbor hood to your house is fine. And the def system tells you far in advance that it is low. So if you ignore those warnings and still run out then that issue is on you.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:53 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

Having driven a diesel car and previously worked for Cummins and now Cat, I can tell you that diesels are great. I don't know why they haven't caught on more in the USA. I can't speak about cold weather but their performance is awesome especially compared to the noisy, chattering diesels of old. You'll find yourself pleasantly driving past gas stations chuckling and you'll find some nice grunt while easily passing gas powered cars up a hill. A diesel engine is more reliable and dependable and has a longer life than a gas engine.

Even though I drive a '14 SRT if I had a choice between the 5.7L V8, the 3.6L V6 or 3.0L diesel I'd easily pick the diesel. Plus, programming or chipping a diesel engine is a whole lot easier and cheaper than a gas engine and you'll get a lot more out of it for less than you would a gas engine.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:08 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

Two good answers here. Don't make problems where they don't exist. DEF tank lasts about 10,000ml and service schedules should take care of it. If you can top up your windscreen wiper bottle, then you have all the skills necessary. Ram, GMC, Ford have all had diesel engines for years. As for the cold, apparently they have a heater on the fuel line and the DEF tank (correct me if I'm wrong) and at the moment mine lives outside in the Northeast. Remote starts in 2 seconds. So far, an absolutely brilliant vehicle. Also shopped Range Rover - no shortage of problems on their forums either, and damn they are expensive!
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:42 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

4000 miles since Christmas, and the only "problem" I've had with my diesel Summit is snow packing in the wheels, sending them out of balance.

Record cold all winter here in Maryland - remote start works fine, regular start works fine. No block heater use. MPG is down because of winter blend, but ANYthing drops MPG in winter. It's still way above a gasser.

DEF, as noted...well, if you can put fuel in a vehicle, you can put DEF in. There's a gauge - when's the last time you ignored your fuel gauge and ran out of gas?

In the end...drive one, and see how you like it. If you're so worried about it...settle for a gasser. But if you really want to enjoy an advanced vehicle with an equally advanced drivetrain...get the Eco. You won't regret it.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:07 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

When one considers the cost of regular gas versus diesel in my area Houston the difference is 45-50 cents. Some stations even more. As gas rises and it currently stands I find it very hard to justify the purchase of the optional diesel engine. When I was a kid, diesel was the cheapest fuel you could purchase. Government is $crewing us from birth and still taking from us after death. I like the diesel, however I'm very happy I went with the V-6 on my G.C.Summit. Idon't want to give to big oil or Uncle Sam another penny if I don't have to. I'm fed up with Govt!
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:10 AM
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The DEF and the "special" oil requirements were in the back of my mind before purchase, but several months in I'm not too concerned.

An additional EcoDiesel caveat is that there are certain types of commutes/usage patterns that can leave you with low fuel efficiency. I know that I sometimes wonder if I have a Hemi based on my 13 - 14 mpg in-city average fuel economy on my completely stock vehicle. However, as far as I can tell, my experience is an outlier (no, I don't tow... this is just normal driving around town).

Also, there's a bit of throttle hesitation/turbo lag if you are trying to clear an intersection (for example). This can take some time to become accustomed to.
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:29 PM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

You live in LA and are worried about cold starts? As mentioned this thing without plugging the engine block heater in will start well into the -number area. Not many years ago no diesel would start without ether or engine block heater at those temps.

DEF refill? Covered. I have 2200 miles on mine and my tank is around 85% full. If you can find a Walmart you can fill the DEF tank.

Fuel cost only applies if you compare regular 87 octane gas to diesel. Where I live 93 octane which is what my car takes is close to diesel.

Fuel mileage. I am averaging 27 mpg mixed driving. I have yet to see a Hemi that gets much over 21 hiway no comparison that way. However nothing sounds as good as the Hemi on the pipe.

All in all I come from many years of diesel use and I have yet to experience any kind of failure. I bought 3 oil filters and 24 quarts of Pennzoil Euro 5W30 lowSAP oil spec'ed by Jeep and it will cost me 97 bucks per change but I plan to change every 10K miles or when the EVIC says to change it. My previous SuperDuty took 15 quarts of oil and a huge oil filter every 5K miles. Changes based on per mile cost is cheaper for this diesel.

All in all I am very pleased with this JGC diesel it is very nice to drive and exceeds my expectations based on one test drive months ago...
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:28 AM
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Thanks for the responses. I'm glad that my concerns were largely much ado about nothing. I guess I got too wrapped up in all the problem reports, so thanks for helping me see the forest for the trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
You live in LA and are worried about cold starts?
LOL I was wondering if someone would comment on that. If all goes according to plan I'll be moving to Colorado in 12-18 months. I know there are many places colder than CO but with several threads about temperature-related issues I thought I'd see what others have to say.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:54 PM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

What I find it interesting is that because of the low sulfur requirements, new diesel technology makes us diesel owners the environmental vanguards. Our diesels produce less air pollution than gasoline engines.

So, think of it as helping mother Earth.
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:14 PM
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Another satisfied GC EcoDiesel owner here. Even the older diesels are much less hassle than the brainwashed American public will have you believe. I also have an '83 Mercedes 300SD that I wouldn't hesitate to drive anywhere, anytime.

The GC EcoDiesel is everything I hoped it would be and more.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:36 AM
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Re: Diesel drawbacks

I think you worry too much. With the GC this is the third occasion I have had to decide if maybe I should go with a gas model or Diesel. Diesel won every time. The fuel is more but the MPG is higher. Now with taxes the difference is growing but my GC get significantly better mileage than even the fuel efficient new trucks. But those vehicles performance leave much to desired. The Diesel pulls nice and hard, Rev's stay low and a little push on the pedal even at highway speeds results in a noticeable change in speed and not just more noise but no acceleration. Then add in the durability of the engine and the extra costs associated with a diesel disappear when compared to a gas vehicle.

Mine starts fine even down into -10 range which is lower than I remember is some time here in PA. Others say the same thing down into -20. I think at that temp even gas vehicles start having trouble starting. Plug in the engine block heater and you are good to go. But honestly how many days do you think you will see -15 or more. This year it was more common in my area than most but still only a handful of times is in my view a trivial concern.

Perhaps if I only drove a mile or two a day through the city I might think gas might be the way to go but the GC gives you great performance no matter what you are doing be it stop and go, offroad, highway or towing it handles them all easily. I had a gas truck that had a 6 cyl in it but I cringed to drive it in the city where I was certain you could watch the gas tank needle move toward empty in stop and go traffic. OH did I say range. I do drive highway pretty often but I usually fill before the warning light goes on and I have covered over 600 miles since the last fill up. Oh and driving it on the highway is much more pleasant than my Jetta was. It cruises so nice it is hard to believe you are in a truck.
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