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Eco-diesel trim levels vs the diesel competition

6K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  drjmayer 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all, first time poster to Jeep Garage, but used to frequent jeepkj.com and lostjeeps.com when I had a always-in-need-of-repair 2004 Liberty KJ.

Looking for some feedback from current WK2 owners. I am looking at ordering a GC Eco-diesel and am waiting on dealer quotes for the Limited, Overland and Summit trims. I spec'd each trim level with almost all the options (except off-road adventure II [AWY])

The questions I have are:
1. What options do you wish you had ordered, or order but don't need /use (ie lower trim level with more options to save on insurance)?

2. Given Jeeps relatively new exposure to the U.S. Diesel market, what made you decide on the GC Eco-diesel vs Brand X (my close second is the VW Touareg TDI due to projected resale value retention http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jeep/grand-cherokee/88098/jeep-grand-cherokee-vs-rivals)?

I've reviewed most of the Eco-diesel threads and they have been extremely helpful especially the http://www.jeepgarage.org/f222/2015-vs-2016-ecodiesel-84908.html and http://www.jeepgarage.org/f222/def-injector-and-harness-protection-group-buy-74979.html
Thanks for any feedback!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Would order exactly the same thing today. Use every feature. Decided against the Summit as we wanted the OR11 and 18 inch wheels, plus it had too much bling for us. Good luck - you won't go wrong whatever you choose. Awesome vehicle.
To answer your second question: engine has been around a long time in one form or another, and in overseas model Jeeps for quite a while. It has also won numerous awards, and I believe it will be fitted in a modified form to the new Maserati SUV. The engine itself is incredibly strong and over engineered. We took out an extended warranty for added protection, because if things go wrong it will not be cheap to repair.
 
#3 · (Edited)
To echo Ferntree's post.
We would order exactly the same thing today and we also use every feature. Our JGC is loaded and the only option we didn't get was the CD Player. No kids......:) !
We also decided against the Summit as we wanted the ORII and 18 inch wheels (for a better ride!) plus we preferred the interior of the Overland. For just over a year and 15k miles, we still very much enjoy it and really use it. We tow with it and have been off road in it and all the while it has been trouble free.

The VM Motori V6 diesel was out in Europe way before it got to the US and is now featured in some high end hardware :) !

We also took out the FCA extended warranty due to the amount of tech on our JGC.
 
#4 ·
Ditto Overland and use every feature. Would order the same. Liked the Summit but the interior color/ exterior color not my cup of tea. Also got the extended service contract (that is what you would call a warranty) for 8 years/ 120K miles because of the laden electronics and low cost ($1950).


Very happy with my diesel and it lives up to the miles per gallon quoted too. Speeds higher than 70 mpg will drop mileage a good deal.


No other competition I would consider out there in the diesel market...
 
#5 ·
Great quick feedback especially about the engine history and 18 inch wheels! Philbytx- I've got kids and I grew up without rear seat entertainment so I'm probably taking a risk not putting the entertainment system in the back but I figure they'll be okay! 2k more for school. I was planning on the baseline entertainment package since every smartphone has navigation these days and almost everything is Bluetooth connectable or has an aux input. Any reason to upgrade?
I've been reading a lot about 18 inch versus the 20 inch wheels and the disadvantage of 20's especially with the lower ratio rear dif.
I know how expensive oversized tires are since the industry moved away from the 15 inch and 16 inch standards. One consideration I had thought of was buying 18 inch or shorter custom wheels to outfit the vehicle with if I purchased a summit GC. But then you're adding at least $2000 or more to an already expensive trim level.
Do the 2015's have an effective DEF guard or people still installing the aftermarket one from the forums?


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
 
#8 ·
I've been reading a lot about 18 inch versus the 20 inch wheels and the disadvantage of 20's especially with the lower ratio rear dif.
I know how expensive oversized tires are since the industry moved away from the 15 inch and 16 inch standards. One consideration I had thought of was buying 18 inch or shorter custom wheels to outfit the vehicle with if I purchased a summit GC.
I think you might have a minor misunderstanding on the wheel sizes. The factory 18 and 20 have tires with the same outside diameter, so the gearing wouldn't affect your choice of one over the other. You do have a much more limited choice of tires in the factory size on the 20-inch.

If you want to swap in aftermarket wheels I think 18 inch might be the smallest wheel that will fit around the brakes.
 
#6 ·
Dom's DEF guard is still the way to go - cheap insurance in my view. BTW - the Garmin/Jeep nav system is one of the best available - and great sized screen as well. Added plus is the "next turn" directions that come up in the middle of the instrument panel. Worth the money and adds to the resale value to boot.
 
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#7 ·
Kprower,

Get the NAV upgrade (the 8.4AN on our 2014's) it is very good plus it will also help with resale value.

Also figure on getting Dom's plate installed....still way better than the stock "protection".

We went with the ORAII as we like the air suspension and the 18" wheels, a cheap upgrade IMHO.
 
#9 ·
We wouldn't change anything from what we got. We had to go 600 miles away to find one that met our requirements. But the trip home helped us get used to our new JEEP!
 
#11 · (Edited)
We have a loaded Overland w ORII. Purchase was based on need for a vehicle with enough HP/torque to pull our off-road trailer. I definitely would not get the Advanced Technology Group again. Right now it isn't even working, but I'd turn it off it it was. The BRAKE feature comes on in odd situations driving down the road and if you're steering around someone, it will come on and disrupt concentration. The adaptive cruise control is nothing I'd ever use. I wouldn't use it in heavy traffic and in light traffic, there isn't anything more annoying than dogging someone's bumper for mile after mile.

The rear traffic detection feature is somewhat useful in parking areas. The backup camera (which I believe is separate from the ATG) is really invaluable to me when connecting trailer to the hitch in off-road areas. I can usually back up right to the hitch with minimal fuss.

One friend of min has a Touareg and he is envious of our JGC. Another friend has a Tesla (I know, not comparable) and when I drove it yesterday I could really see the future of autos. Tesla plans to come out with an SUV at some point. My trailer has solar panels and I could see hooking a Tesla SUV up to the panels while on camping trips.
 
#12 ·
The adaptive cruise control is nothing I'd ever use. I wouldn't use it in heavy traffic and in light traffic, there isn't anything more annoying than dogging someone's bumper for mile after mile.
As a counterpoint, the adaptive cruise control is one of my favorite features of the Jeep, and I will never own another vehicle without it. I always hated having to break cruise because some jackass in front of me kept varying their speed. Now, I don't care because ACC keeps me at a safe distance from said variable jackass. This leads to far less stressful driving. You can control how much distance ACC keeps between you and the vehicle in front of you.

On top of that, peak hypermiling fun comes from ACC drafting tractor trailers.

The automatic high beam headlamps are kind of gimmicky though. I get flashed too often when I use them because it fails to detect vehicles. I prefer the MB approach of using beam carving instead.
 
#13 ·
You know you can switch off or modify most of those functions like active braking etc in the EVIC right?
 
#14 ·
Sure. The only vehicle in a 4 state area that had everything else I wanted came with the ACC, etc. After having tried to use it, just saying I wouldn't get it again if I had a choice.

Also, I would never draft another vehicle for the sake of drafting or stay on another driver's tail for a lengthy period of time. Last fall I drove from NJ to FL and back, and then from NJ to Washington State to NM. One of the most irritating parts of the trip was when other drivers sat on my tail when traffic conditions didn't warrant it.
 
#15 ·

2. Given Jeeps relatively new exposure to the U.S. Diesel market, what made you decide on the GC Eco-diesel vs Brand X (my close second is the VW Touareg TDI due to projected resale value retention http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jeep/grand-cherokee/88098/jeep-grand-cherokee-vs-rivals)?
I very much like the interior on the touareg, but it would have been around 15k more for the same features, minus the offroad goodies on the jeep :/

Terex said:
Also, I would never draft another vehicle for the sake of drafting or stay on another driver's tail for a lengthy period of time. Last fall I drove from NJ to FL and back, and then from NJ to Washington State to NM. One of the most irritating parts of the trip was when other drivers sat on my tail when traffic conditions didn't warrant it.
ACC at max distance setting is well beyond what I'd consider unsafe tailgating distance. In fact, I find myself decreasing the follow distance because its equally as annoying when people merge into my lane with only inches to spare.

Also, set your brake-assist to "near" instead of "far", that will prevent it from randomly cutting on during certain turns, etc.
 
#16 · (Edited)
ACC at max distance setting is well beyond what I'd consider unsafe tailgating distance. In fact, I find myself decreasing the follow distance because its equally as annoying when people merge into my lane with only inches to spare.
QFT. Also, I'm guessing ACC haters haven't spent much time driving long distances on undivided two lane highways. All too often there is too much traffic in the oncoming lane to pass, and the drivers in front of you can't seem to keep their speed constant. So, it's either "drive manually for hours while you're trapped in a pack", "perform dangerous, white knuckle, illegal-in-many-states chain passing while oncoming traffic flashes their headlights at you and swerves", or ACC.

Nothing beats a wide open road with no other traffic, but ACC dramatically reduces the stress level of driving in traffic. I recognize not every feature is something everyone wants (*cough*QuadraLift*cough*), but as for me I will never own another vehicle without ACC.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I've seen the Quadra lift come up a couple times. Are people are just afraid of the expense of repair because it's such a complicated system? (Another reason for extended warranty)
No "lifetime" MaxCare warranty available for EcoDiesels (or for any type of Chrysler vehicle for the Canadans up in Canadia). QL is very expensive to repair, and ignoring a broken QL isn't really an option.

There are other expensive components that vaguely seem likely to fail (nav cluster/entertainment), but those aren't as critical as drivetrain or suspension, as well as generally seeming less failure prone vs a pressurized mechanical system like QL.

I envision keeping my Jeep past the 8 years it will be under warranty/MaxCare, but QL seems like the most likely component that would cause me to have to jettison it. If you are the type that only keeps vehicles that are under warranty then you have no worries.
 
#20 · (Edited)
honestly I'm much more worried about the DPF system failing and stranding me.
Actually, I pray for that to happen out of warranty because that will give me an excuse to hack the DPF and SCR off, reflash the ECU, and then have better fuel economy and reliability as a result. This is one case where the warranty is holding me back at the moment, haha.

As for the putative reliability of air suspension due to long-term existence of the technology, based on what I've read on various fora that fact didn't really seem to help keep the initial version of QuadraLift on Jeeps from being failure-prone. If there were a 10 year proven history on this version of QL then I would relax a bit.
 
#21 ·
Summit with new saddle interior. Summit sound system makes a huge difference for me as music is incredible. Love ACC, and auto high beams. Have never had people flash as others report. Air Suspension lowering for entry, or using highest setting and tire change to crawl under say to install Dom's plate are neat features.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I ordered the Limited with all options except CD player (takes up most of the console storage) and the ACC. I didn't want the ACC as my neighbor was having problems with it and didn't want a higher model because I didn't want the leather dash. Love the air suspension for off road treks and for trailer towing. Other than wanting the Jeep brown and indigo blue interior, I am a happy camper. I did add Dom's skid plate and body side moldings for protection.
 
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#26 ·
I ordered a '14 Overland CRD mainly because I thought the summit had too much and the limited wasn't paint matched (personal preference for myself).

I mostly bought the jeep as a dog hauler, as my 2 seater was no longer a good idea. I like most of the tech on it, but I'd prefer to never own another vehicle with brake assist. It almost killed me several times (and or made me crap myself) within the first few weeks. I've had it turned off since then.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Love my Summit...and like you, was debating between the Touareg and this vehicle. I just wasn't in a position to wait for the new Touareg to come out. Go to the ClubTouareg site and read about the notorious steering wheel shake. I would consider the car only when that has been cleared up.

I like everything about the Summit (Granite w/Platinum)...not too blingy for me with the subdued trim package. The sound system is simply awesome. I have a pair of 7 year olds so I did get the BluRay system which has been great for road trips. Worth it? Probably not, but it is a clean install and we do use it. ACC is fine but only great for certain conditions...I find the braking to be less than desireable...sometimes it comes on at the right time and other times it seems a bit harsh. I am certain they will refine the algorithm and it will improve in the newer model years to come. I wish the car had stop/start technology like the Touareg and handled a bit better on windy roads but it is a nice stable and efficient vehicle for my needs.
 
#28 ·
I like and use all features except for Brake Assist - because in traffic when gaps between cars are tight, I *know* when there's enough room for me to get through a tight gap and I don't want Brake Assist to impede my progress. Sometimes Brake Assist is actually a safety hazard (!) because the traffic gap exists for a split second, and braking would put me in harm's way. Go figure, a safety feature actually being a hazard. Traffic can be bad in the SF Bay Area, but for those in more rural areas Brake Assist would probably be fine. For me, I've disabled it.

ACC: Adaptive Cruise Control. I love this feature. On long road trips on the open road it is great and there's no need for regular cruise control. Ever. In tight traffic I rarely use it, but either way, tight traffic or no, I would use ACC before choosing the regular CC. As for hypermiling behind a semi, I'll have to give that a try. :D When interstate traffic comes to a full stop, ACC slows my rig down all the way to a full stop, then automatically turns off after a second or so. ACC works great except on cloverleaf on/off ramps where the radius of curvature is small. Other than that ACC is a great feature once I learned what it does, what its limitations are, and when it does not function (tight radius, e.g.). I had to learn how to trust ACC, but now will never look back.

HDC: Hill Descent Control. Great great feature. Takes all the stress and work out of crawling down a steep slippery trail. Just use the shift paddles to adjust my speed, and gravity and HDC's brakes on the individual wheels and tranny gear lock do all the work. All I have to do is steer and paddle-shift. If you haven't tried HDC I strongly suggest you do when next out on the trails in 4-Lo. Find a muddy, slick, steep downhill, and try that run twice, HDC Off, then HDC On. You will see, it is a WORLD of a difference.

Heated & Vented Front Seats: love this feature, especially SWMBO sitting in the passenger seat.

Heated Steering Wheel: it's not that cold where I live so it's rarely used. Sometimes on chilly mornings it's cold enough to use, and I appreciate it. I haven't yet been on a road trip through the Sierras in winter, but I'm sure I would use this. On a side note, my motorcycle has heated seats and grips, and I do like and use them. I've ridden through snow storms, it can get cold. And on a bike, once you get cold, you stay cold while riding. There aren't many ways to generate heat while riding, other than doing squats. I could have done without the Heated Steering Wheel.

Sun Roof: love it.

20" wheels or 18" wheels? The Jeep salesman let me choose what I wanted. This was the toughest choice for me. I like the styling of the 20s, but also wanted the taller tires on the 18s for off-road capability. In the end I went with 20s because of the look, I really like this 5-spoke design. I can mount slightly taller tires and be okay off road. In the year since I bought my rig I've second-guessed myself a few times about this, but in the end I'm happy with the 20s. And I can't wait for the Forteras to wear out! :D

Quadra-Lift: I do occasional 4-wheeling and QL is good enough for what it does. It gives me a decent amount of extra clearance when needed, and yet my rig does not have a full-time lift kit so I can take my honey out to a nice dinner and we still look classy in our JGC without looking too country or too hick. At the push of a button, I get extra clearance. The ride is a little rough in ORA-II. I practice at Hollister Hills SVRA when I can, it's 90 minutes from home, and at the Obstacle Course there are two obstacles I remember from last year's 4X4 Safety Clinic: Frame Twister, and Stair Stepper.

Some videos (not my rig - these videos are cross posted to my Hollister Hills thread):


"Frame Twister"
(2 minutes, red Wrangler; annoying music, just mute it)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX7sX6oWobA


(5 minutes; older, lifted Grand Cherokee on "Frame Twister")
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UnRcycPUZ0c


"Stair Stepper"
(30 seconds, '92 Explorer on "Stair Stepper")
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Om5Tx37KI


To be able to do this on my stock JGC with /50 series street tires, in a rig that's able to take my babe out for a night on the town, or to drive comfortably across the country putting in 800+ mile days, is just great. Quadra-Lift gives me that extra capability.

I'll be back to Hollister Hills for another clinic next month and will get pictures and videos of my rig doing this. Anyone want to join? See here: http://www.jeepgarage.org/f42/hollister-hills-esprit-de-four-safety-clinic-85549.html

But by far the best option on the JGC is the 3.0 CRD (EcoDiesel) engine. 420 foot-pounds of torque, it just pulls and pulls. I've towed a couple of cars up and over the Santa Cruz Mountains on Hwy 17 and the rig just pulls effortlessly. To have 600-700 mile range on a tankful is great, and I've posted these fuel economy figures before, but I'll say again that these are great numbers:
> 45 MPG @ 55 MPH
> 34 MPG @ 65 MPH
> 28 MPG @ 75 MPH
> 25 MPG @ 85 MPH
(Posted here on 19 Feb 2015: http://www.jeepgarage.org/f222/eco-diesel-mileage-78917-4.html#post1150323)

Amazing fuel economy, in such a capable, versatile rig.

When buying I test drove the Touareg TDI; Porsche Cayenne diesel; BMW X5, X3 and X1; and some Land Rovers. And years ago I test drove the Touareg TDI V-10 but that's no longer available in California. In the end we got the Jeep and we've been very happy, minor bugs (P20EE) and all. I'd buy the JGC CRD again, in a heartbeat. But, without Brake Assist.

Apologies for the long post.
 
#30 ·
The only thing I would leave out is the CD player-I didn't want it but accepting it (no charge) was the only way I could get the Red/black combo of my Overland diesel. It was a worthwhile compromise though because I love the colour combo.
I find the ACC very impressive-great on windy two-lanes with poor passing options. I haven't yet encountered the brake assist coming on. I considered the 18" wheels but honestly find the ride on the 20's great, and my "off roading" is more "single lane gravel roading". I may consider going to an 18" wheel and tire combo for the winter though-snows are an absolute must here in the great white north (anyone that says otherwise...). Too new for any issues yet, but I love this vehicle. Fantastic mileage.
 
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