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  #13  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:55 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/f...g-allegations/

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  #14  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:32 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

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Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
However, we can only hope that this "fix" for our 14 REALLY doesn't affect our mileage and performance.

Trouble is, you don't find out until after they "fix" it.
I love my diesel, but damn I keep coming back the sentiment I expressed in this thread: Choosing which recalls to apply

To date, my list of applicable recalls *not* to apply:
Sun visor wiring recall
Sun visor wiring recall recall (oh, sweet irony)
DPF/SCR recall

Next to be added to the list:
Diesel engine performance & economy-damaging recall

I will not sacrifice my EcoDiesel on the altar of the EPA/CARB.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:52 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

I support post #8 and rubicontrail. Here's a question. How does GDE do it (don't answer that, I know)? Better economy, reliability still passes testing? Do they implement VW tactics? Do they have a better way? We all know there is almost always a better way to do anything. Time is money and when agency interactions are involved, demands and armchair quarterbacking factor in. I'm buying one when I can.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:01 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

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I support post #8 and rubicontrail. Here's a question. How does GDE do it (don't answer that, I know)? Better economy, reliability still passes testing? Do they implement VW tactics? Do they have a better way? We all know there is almost always a better way to do anything. Time is money and when agency interactions are involved, demands and armchair quarterbacking factor in. I'm buying one when I can.

They turn off the EGR, probably the biggest contribution. They also optimize fuel combustion and injection timing. Keith and Matt are two former Chrysler engineers. They've seen the stock software and found a way to make it more efficient. Everything is done within engine safety specs. They also make the engine warm up process more efficient.

All of this is just going to produce a little more NOx. That's why all of their - and every other tuner on the market - advertises their ECM mods as off-road use only.


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Old 05-19-2017, 07:39 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

My guess is that they will ramp up the DEF injection rate to reduce NOX emissions.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:55 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

Who says money can't buy everything?
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 PM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

The way software is written this was most likely done a long time ago and in the software industry for autos and most mechanical things good enough is good enough until an upgrade occurs. That is the case here. Why didn't they implement this before? Because it was good enough. This isn't Apple or Microsoft that write updates all the time.
Code costs a lot of money and time so why change something that works.

It is perfectly reasonable to do small tweaks to each model year but given the situation caused by VW all diesel manufactures (I imagine) are having their feet held to the fire.

I am guessing again that FCA started working on this immediately once informed about the charges against them...

I am happy to see that FCA was not cheating and was trying to make the trade off between emissions, performance, fuel economy....
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:11 AM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

Knob #1 - Improved fuel economy
Knob #2 - Improved performance
Knob #3 - Improved longevity
Knob #4 - Improved emissions


I would be surprised if turning any single knob up (improved) wouldn’t result in at least one of the other knobs having to be turned down (worsened).


I would imagine the software engineers squeeze every bit of juice out of their code sacrificing categories #1 through #3 in order to just meet requirements for category #4. If that’s not the case, then the EPA/CARB shouldn’t hesitate to raise the bar much higher since everyone can be made happy with simple software revision.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

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Originally Posted by DJP2014 View Post
Knob #1 - Improved fuel economy
Knob #2 - Improved performance
Knob #3 - Improved longevity
Knob #4 - Improved emissions


I would be surprised if turning any single knob up (improved) wouldn’t result in at least one of the other knobs having to be turned down (worsened).


I would imagine the software engineers squeeze every bit of juice out of their code sacrificing categories #1 through #3 in order to just meet requirements for category #4. If that’s not the case, then the EPA/CARB shouldn’t hesitate to raise the bar much higher since everyone can be made happy with simple software revision.
Agree with you on all those points. the one variable that I wonder about is the DEF. Maybe the trade off here will be the DEF, saturate it with DEF to meet the emissions (if that would even do it I don't know just a guess). Maybe the trade off will be having to fill your DEF tank every 5k instead of every 10k or something like that. DEF is cheap maybe given the alternatives taking a hit in the maintenance frequency would be a small price to pay compared to the others. just theorizing but maybe that's the area they have latitude to muck with and past purchasers get a gift card for additional DEF lol. who knows lets wait and see.

But I agree the hit has to be somewhere, I get software is always in a state of change but id be surprised if purely software satisfied all categories with out negatives I just don't think they would have left that much on the table when they were designing the thing. They squeeze every tenth of an mpg they can out of these things when they build them.
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:09 AM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

Fact is none of us really know what the 8 "defeat devices"-as is called by the government propaganda machine- really are and what it'll take to remedy the situation. It might be a very small change required. This is the reason I paid to keep the stock ecm with the GDE. As much as I try to avoid the dealer, sometimes you do need to go in for something. If it isn't this fix, it'll be something else to give the dealer a reason to flash the ecm. If they see the vehicle for anything, they'll do the flash/updates. They might void warranty if a obd lock was in place.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:16 AM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

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...Maybe the trade off here will be the DEF, saturate it with DEF to meet the emissions (if that would even do it I don't know just a guess). Maybe the trade off will be having to fill your DEF tank every 5k instead of every 10k or something like that.
It sure would be nice if that's the case and all we have to do is fill our DEF more often. It's possible, but I would be a bit surprised if that's the only downside.
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:23 AM
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Re: ED Update: FCA prepares to certify diesel trucks, SUVs with fix

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Originally Posted by Tinman2 View Post
Fact is none of us really know what the 8 "defeat devices"-as is called by the government propaganda machine- really are and what it'll take to remedy the situation. It might be a very small change required. This is the reason I paid to keep the stock ecm with the GDE. As much as I try to avoid the dealer, sometimes you do need to go in for something. If it isn't this fix, it'll be something else to give the dealer a reason to flash the ecm. If they see the vehicle for anything, they'll do the flash/updates. They might void warranty if a obd lock was in place.

True we're all guessing, but if it cost VW $25B to dig their way out of their mess, I would guess these "small changes" to avoid such a penalty probably compare in value to the penalty.
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