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  #13  
Old 02-03-2014, 07:13 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

Not really different rules. It's against the law here in the USA to fuel your motor vehicle at a filling station while it is running. Some just choose to ignore that. It's not really enforced by anybody, although it probably should be for safety's sake.

The diesel supplement manual also is pretty specific about limiting idle time when possible. Low cylinder temps cause ungood stuff to happen.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:26 PM
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Ever try to set diesel on fire? A cigarette can't ignite diesel. You can throw diesel on a small fire to extinguish it. There is NO more risk of fire from idling at a diesel pump than there is driving up to it. Diesel fumes don't explode either. If all vehicles where diesel (in a perfect world) the laws would be different. I don't think I've turned mine off to fill up yet.

As far as extended idles goes, I doubt your cylinder temps will drop to dangerous levels in 5-10 minutes. If you are filling up with the larger nozzle pumps, its full in a snap anyways! IMO the temperature cycle from a stop/start and the extra starter engagement represent more wear than a 5 minute idle! Either way is trivial to the long term reliability.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:28 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Ever try to set diesel on fire? A cigarette can't ignite diesel. You can throw diesel on a small fire to extinguish it. There is NO more risk of fire from idling at a diesel pump than there is driving up to it. Diesel fumes don't explode either. If all vehicles where diesel (in a perfect world) the laws would be different. I don't think I've turned mine off to fill up yet.

As far as extended idles goes, I doubt your cylinder temps will drop to dangerous levels in 5-10 minutes. If you are filling up with the larger nozzle pumps, its full in a snap anyways! IMO the temperature cycle from a stop/start and the extra starter engagement represent more wear than a 5 minute idle! Either way is trivial to the long term reliability.
OK.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Ever try to set diesel on fire? A cigarette can't ignite diesel. You can throw diesel on a small fire to extinguish it. There is NO more risk of fire from idling at a diesel pump than there is driving up to it. Diesel fumes don't explode either. If all vehicles where diesel (in a perfect world) the laws would be different. I don't think I've turned mine off to fill up yet. As far as extended idles goes, I doubt your cylinder temps will drop to dangerous levels in 5-10 minutes. If you are filling up with the larger nozzle pumps, its full in a snap anyways! IMO the temperature cycle from a stop/start and the extra starter engagement represent more wear than a 5 minute idle! Either way is trivial to the long term reliability.
I always shut my motor off when filling up because it's the law and temp is never really an issue here in So. Cal. People here start talking about it being "freezing" outside when it drops below 60. However I am interested in your comment about using "larger nozzle pumps". When I first got my CRD I tried filling up at one of the semi pumps at a Pilot but the nozzle wouldn't fit because it was too big. Is there a "larger nozzle" that's somewhere between the car pumps and the truck pumps, or are you using some sort of adapter?
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:32 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

I fueled up this morning and it was minus 2 degrees Farenheit. Shut vehicle off as usual, got out, shut door, filled tank (which took a long time because the pump was crazy slow), opened door, got back into vehicle. Was still plenty warm inside. No need to break the law and leave the vehicle running in my opinion.

Not to morph this thread into a discussion about how "dangerous" diesel is. But I will make a few simple comments about that:
1. Diesel is my preferred fire starter for wet wood that won't light with paper. Works like a champ. And it DEFINATELY catches on fire from a cigarette or if you pour it on to an existing flame.
2. Diesel is classified as a "combustible" liquid and in the USA it is subject to the storage/dispensing requirements set forth in the International Fire Code. Chapter 34 specifically. Google it. These are NOT the same requirements as for gasoline. They are specific to diesel as diesel has a different flash point than gasoline. Note that diesel bulk storage tanks are required to have explosion relief ports venting to atmosphere. Hmm. So much for the theory that diesel isn't explosive?

A few years ago I toured a diesel tug that nearly sank due to a massive engine room fire caused by low pressure diesel being squirted onto a engine turbocharger housing (which was about 800 degrees F at the time, or 60% cooler than a open flame from a cigarette lighter or match) Hmm. So engine/exhaust parts are hot enough to ignite diesel. Seems to make sense why the law requires us to shut off our vehicles when fueling up.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

You cant vent an explosion, those relief ports are to prevent BLEVEs (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion) by allowing the vapors to vent to the atmosphere before the explosion.

If you want to have a fire fueling a running car using the scenario you described with the boat you are going to have to work at it. You will need to be towing something, come sailing into a gas station, open your hood, begin pumping diesel onto the turbo before its exterior has cooled to below the flash point of diesel. Being as this cooling will occur very quickly and we're talking seconds, not minutes you will have to be quick. I don't see this scenario being common with these cars but it does bring up a good point. If you want to have a fire while fueling this vehicle you are going to have to try, those not willing to put in the effort are not going to be successful.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:19 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

All I know is I when I'm at gas station I'm
1: Surrounded by gas pumps
2: almost never alone.
Since I can't control other peoples stupidity and what they might do at their pump 3 feet away, I turn off my engine.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:34 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Zach1 View Post
All I know is I when I'm at gas station I'm
1: Surrounded by gas pumps
2: almost never alone.
Since I can't control other peoples stupidity and what they might do at their pump 3 feet away, I turn off my engine.
Exactly. The diesel pump is right next to the gas pump typically. And you wouldn't catch me dead getting in the way and trying to fuel my piddly little Jeep GC or Ram diesel pickup over at the fuel island where the semi trucks are. Truck drivers call those folks "super truckers".

Agreed with Crabman that you'd have to really work at it to cause a diesel fire while filling a running vehicle with diesel. But never say never. The laws are designed to protect us from people doing stupid stuff.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:52 PM
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Good point on OTHER gas powered vehicles refueling nearby.

As far as a cigarette or match igniting diesel, do me a favor and go pour a puddle (not a thin wipe, a wet puddle like a spill) on the ground and throw a lit match on it. It will extinguish the cigarette or match virtually every time. Anyone that keeps a can of diesel around the shop and has used it to light a fire knows you have to hold an open flame directly on diesel for several seconds and then it will slowly start burning. Now, once it gets going, it'll burn hotter than gasoline. Its perfect for setting a brush pile on fire.

All this is neither here nor there....turn your motor off if it helps you sleep better. Besides, as was pointed out, its the law. Of course removing mattress tags is illegal also. You guys are correct and I should set a better example for my kids.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiley75 View Post
Exactly. The diesel pump is right next to the gas pump typically. And you wouldn't catch me dead getting in the way and trying to fuel my piddly little Jeep GC or Ram diesel pickup over at the fuel island where the semi trucks are. Truck drivers call those folks "super truckers".
But the trucker islands are where the pay at the pump low cost DEF is dispensed. I actually was greeted kindly by a trucker while getting DEF the other day. He was curious why I was putting DEF in my gas tank! I should a said °crap, this isn't gas in the small handle???" ☺

BTW, filling with diesel at the trucker pumps was a no go. The nozzle wouldn't fit. Apparently the is small, large, and huge nozzle sizes. The first two I've seen at the auto diesel pumps. The huge nozzle was a first for me. The nozzle was the same O.D. as the filler neck O.D. This was at a Pilot Truck Stop.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:10 PM
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Re: Fueling the CRD

speaking of trying to burn diesel fuel:

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Old 03-12-2014, 01:52 PM
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So to anyone who thinks they are going to accidentally light diesel, this is a great demonstration as to why, unless they atomize it onto a hot flame, it won't happen.

Great video. Thanks!
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