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Help me see the "savings" of diesel?

5K views 28 replies 24 participants last post by  NetworkTV 
#1 ·
Hi guys, I've been running numbers every which way and looking at historical gas prices to try and find a savings. So far I'm not seeing that much of a savings in choosing the diesel vs. the V6. In looking at gas prices I'm seeing about a 30-55 cent premium for diesel, and if I figure the math at 20,000 miles per year, it's just about equal. Then, if I figure the additional diesel maintenance costs plus exhaust cleaner, now it's probably more expensive.

Originally I thought the diesel would be a massive winner, but on paper it's not. Am I missing something? Are diesel prices different at the current moment?

Next, if I compare the v6 vs the v8 over the course of a year and 20,000 miles. I figure it would cost me about $1000 more per year to run the V8 (worse case). So if the diesel and the V6 are about the same, why wouldn't I choose a little more and getting the v8.

Can you diesel guys help me figure this one out?

Thanks
 
#2 · (Edited)
Help me see the "savings" of diesel?

Diesel you buy only if you need towing power or you just want a diesel. the diesel fuel consumption is pretty flat when towing, with a gas you'd be burning way more loaded.

With the no charge diesel option it makes sense, I'd go with hemi otherwise.

The diesel gets you some stuff over the V6 gas like a stronger rear axle and different transmission.
 
#3 · (Edited)
If you're considering buying the diesel and you are the kind of buyer who wants to drive it "until the wheels fall off", then be sure to factor in the cost of a GDE tune because the stock emissions systems are likely to reduce the expected longevity of the diesel. The maximum length Mopar Maximum Care service contract that is available for a diesel is 8 years/120k miles, and I plan to operate my Jeep for far longer than that. Probably a good idea to factor the Max Care contract into the price too if you're planning to be a long-term owner.

As for buying a diesel for economic reasons, I would have been pissed had I done that. However, I'm a very happy diesel owner and would buy it again in a heartbeat. I bought mine for torque, range per tank, and the fact that I've always wanted a diesel.
 
#4 ·
Hi guys, I've been running numbers every which way and looking at historical gas prices to try and find a savings. So far I'm not seeing that much of a savings in choosing the diesel vs. the V6. In looking at gas prices I'm seeing about a 30-55 cent premium for diesel, and if I figure the math at 20,000 miles per year, it's just about equal. Then, if I figure the additional diesel maintenance costs plus exhaust cleaner, now it's probably more expensive.

Originally I thought the diesel would be a massive winner, but on paper it's not. Am I missing something? Are diesel prices different at the current moment?

Next, if I compare the v6 vs the v8 over the course of a year and 20,000 miles. I figure it would cost me about $1000 more per year to run the V8 (worse case). So if the diesel and the V6 are about the same, why wouldn't I choose a little more and getting the v8.

Can you diesel guys help me figure this one out?

Thanks
What you may or may not save with the diesel can be very depenant on where you live. Diesel vs gas prices are all over the map depending on where you live. The best thing to do is what you did run the numbers in your area. That said not everyone buys the diesel for fuel cost some do it for towing or because they like the low end torque it has.
Concerning the v6 vs the v8, the v6 of course will give you some better mileage but the real world numbers dont have a significant difference. There are people who have owned the same year of both on here and have reported about a 2 mpg difference between the two. Car and driver managed 1 mpg in their mixed driving between the two. Individuals will be all over the map on this depending on their driving styles. I think the bigger consideration between those two is the up front cost, v8 is about 3.5k more depending. Personnely i have the v8 and would never consider anything else but everyone does have differing needs. In 2016 the v6 gets engine start/stop feature which will hopefully put some milage distance between the two, have not seen the figures for that yet. Probably be a good idea not to be a first taker on that new start/stop engine let them shake the bugs out first which its sure to have. Best to drive each one also and compare. Good luck
 
#26 ·
The unique fun of driving a diesel imho is worth more money overall if that's what it took. The real world fuel economy difference from the Hemi is significant and will save you money.

Any towing at all and it's no comparison....

Great problem to have debating these nice vehicles! Good luck.

Rick
 
#6 ·
I'll add to the equation. If you read Consumer Reports as your automotive bible then don't even buy the Jeep. However if you get past that kind of advice I can tell you from owning diesels and keeping them a long time 9 years min that maintenance is less. Fuel filter changes and oil changes is all I did to previous diesels running close to 200K miles. Also fuel prices are artificially low right now because of OPEC trying to run the frackers out of business. This might stay that way another year or so but when the real price of fuel comes out diesel and gas will rise to levels seen a few years ago or higher. 3.40 a gallon for gas compared to 3.80 a gallon for diesel really starts to show up in the pocketbook. I average 28-29 mpg and I know the 3.6 will most likely do 22 to 25 at best hemi 18-22 at best.
Also the diesel has extreme long range. I can go 700 miles before a fill up or more and that gives me options as to where to get fuel.

Regardless of which engine you choose the JGC is one of if not the best vehicle I have owned so far and I am at 33K miles.
 
#7 ·
Help me see the "savings" of diesel?

If you base your calculations solely upon fuel costs right now the time to recoup the investment price of the diesel engine & transmission over a gas engine is not practical. Two years ago when fuel was over four bucks a gallon, it was easy to recoup the cost of the diesel engine-15 months for the Hemi V8 and 39 months for the V6(and those numbers included oil changes and DEF fluid). Right now, driving a diesel is pretty much a want issue, with an nod given to those who drive lots of miles, and/or tow on a frequent basis. In all honesty, for most people the V-6 is adequate.


Sent from Hillary's new private email server.
 
#8 ·
I had the v6 in a 2011 and drove it for 135,000 miles. I averaged 21-22 mpg. Trade it in on a 2014 diesel and have put 38,000 miles on it in first year averaging 28-29 mpg. I bought the diesel because I have a 22 foot travel trailer and it pulls it so much better the the v6 did. Oil change are every 10,000 miles, compared to every 5,000 on my 2011 V6. I bought discounted oil changes from the dealer when I bought the 2014. Also diesels usually have a higher resale value if you drive the miles I drive and trade up every 3-4 years. Had the new cat put on this jeep at 12,000 miles, but had the head replaced on my 2011 at 14,000 miles because of a factory defect. I will go diesel again. My wife's highlander needs to be refilled every 350 miles because of a small tank. She hates it when I tell her I average over 600 miles between refills.


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#9 ·
One thing I've noticed is that diesel prices don't always track with the regular/mid/premium prices. Some stations near me sell diesel for just under or equal to regular, while some stations a couple miles away charge ~30 cents over the premium prices!?! That's where things like the gas buddy app and the SXM travellink earn their keep.

So in general, I pay the same or less than regular gas, get at least 5 more mpgs, and can go over 600 miles between fillups. Maintenance and DEF may add a little to the overall running costs, but I believe that diesel engines are generally much tougher and will outlive the average gas engine by tens of thousands of miles.

Oh, and I've got more torque than the Hemi. :)
 
#10 ·
Diesel fuel prices go up in the winter when home heating oil (basically diesel fuel) adds to the demand when it gets cold up north. I like the diesel for driveability and range as much as the added torque for towing. I also didn't see if leather seats and the tech packages penciled out -- we just bought as many goodies as we were willing to pay. :)
 
#11 ·
In a day to day automobile for transportation, there is no such thing as an "investment". You pay to drive it....and it depreciates. End of story. Rent or buy, your choice.

You either like a diesel, or you don't.
You either need a diesel, or you don't.
You either worry about "savings" or you don't.
You either rent a car or buy it.

Any way you look at it, if a diesel suits you and/or your needs and you can afford it, you rent it/buy it:thumbsup:.

In over 50 years of driving, I never rented basic transportation. Always bought and cared for them. And if I REALLY liked them, I've sometimes kept them for 10 to 15 years. But that is me......

If you have to worry about "savings", then perhaps you shouldn't buy one ;)!
 
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#13 · (Edited)
For a 4x4 version, gas mpg is 20% lower than diesel, based on the mpg.gov site info; 19 mpg vs 24 mpg. However, diesel has been traditionally 10% higher but these days that is not the case.

Letting ur miles = 20,000, and diesel fuel cost vary from $2.20-$5.20/gal ($2-$5 for gas), the diesel saves one from $300-$700/yr. If you just need a 4x4 w/o heavier towing ability or better performance but get in at lowest cost, then the 3.6l is for you. Low chance fuel savings give you a ROI to make the diesel total lower cost to own. If you are a performance + economy guy, then diesel is for you. Easier to get better performance from the turbo diesel. Oil changes & fuel filter changes are more expensive, but I don't think I'd spend $300 more per year. Oil is 8 quarts & only gets changed every 10k miles for diesel but not sure about the gas burners.

I ran those very calculations but it was against keeping a 2003 5.4l Expedition @ 13.5 mpg and also getting a 38 mpg diesel Golf or Jetta. I would only drive the Expy for 5k mi during hunting season. However, the poor mileage of the Expy + extra vehicle insurance + tags + having an extra vehicle to jack with made me choose selling the Expy and getting the diesel JGC. There was a $10k difference in vehicle cost too to think about but I keep my trucks 10+ years. It wasn't a complete cost decision, but it was pretty darn close.
 
#14 ·
I am a diesel addict. I tell my friends about it if they ask and they can't believe the fuel economy. But, I don't push diesels to people who want to save money. They cost more initially, maintenance and fuel related issues can cost way more than gasser counterparts. There are a lot of nuances to owning a diesel.
But, when you drive it I think you'll have a hard time going to a high revving engine again. It's just effortless and I truly smile at the pump.
 
#15 ·
From a strictly economic standpoint I could never justify the additional cost of buying the diesel when I was looking to replace my 2000 WJ - it's almost a $15000 option (Base Laredo vs Limited ~$8000, Diesel option $4500, mandatory Luxury Option Package II $2000).

$15000 buys an awful lot of fuel...

That said, I paid my monies and I couldn't be happier with my decision to buy the diesel.

The fuel economy on this engine is phenomenal for a vehicle this heavy. I'm averaging 24.5-26 mpg city and 28-30 open highway with the 4X4. Towing my Airstream, I'm averaging around 16.5 mpg overall, which is double the 8-8.5 I was getting with the 4.7L WJ. This is an ideal low to mid-weight tow vehicle.

I bought it for its towing capabilities; at some point (probably 10 years out or so) the fuel savings may actually pay for the engine premium. I doubt it, but I don't care.

I'm too busy trying to justify a GDE tune...
 
#17 ·
Diesel option is 4500. Not 15K of add ons.
Life expectancy, fuel mileage, towing capability all exceed the gas engines but it is all what you want in life.
I don't buy a vehicle based on economics or I would never buy a Jeep I would be one of the Toyota, Honda people.
The other thing that is never mentioned and I see this with other marques like BMW is the soul of the vehicle.
My diesel has soul and a connection with me.
Can't say that with other vehicles I own such as a Ford 500 Subaru Outback.
How do you measure pleasure driving the vehicle?
I have yet to see that. I greatly enjoyed my Porsche and it had soul as well but it was not reliable and leaked oil all the time.

They replaced the CAT on my diesel that is all I have had done in 33K miles of getting 28-29 mpg which is as good as or better than my BMW 335...
 
#18 ·
Life expectancy, fuel mileage, towing capability all exceed the gas engines but it is all what you want in life.
I would caution that the "life expectancy" aspect has yet to be proved with this diesel, given all the horrible systems forced on it by the EPA. Hell, just look at the somewhat prevalent SCR cat issue that has cropped up in under 2 years of ownership.

Of course, if one were to get a tune that disabled EGR and perhaps deleted the DPF/SCR... oh, and if one added a catch can to mitigate the nasty PCV... then I'm guessing this diesel would live up to the reputation of long-term reliability.

In the meantime, one can just budget for Max Care, the GDE tune, and a catch can.
 
#19 ·
There is the breakeven over year calculation where it takes many years before the diesel will save you in $ on fuel over that term (much longer compared to a v6) - especially if you do not need it's power (i.e. towing or hauling it loaded with people and gear). However if you sell it - diesels usually command their price difference over the gas models as they are rarer models and there are a lot of used diesel buyers out there. I sold my previous WK diesel for about $4k more than I could have it had the Hemi. I had people contact me from 1,000 of miles away as well wanting to buy it sight unseen for my asking price.
 
#21 ·
If I had to pay 4500 for the diesel over the hemi would have got the hemi. Didn't find the v6 had enough go for my liking on numerous test drives and transmission was less refined. I think on a purely driving factor I would have enjoyed the v8 just a bit more. But the diesel is a fantastic balance of power, fun, and fuel economy.

We had a free diesel promo in Canada so it made sense as diesel/gas is usually pretty similar year over year.
 
#22 ·
I still don't understand why people think the diesel needs to "justify the extra cost" or "earn it back" but then buy the Hemi with no such expectation?

Look, the diesel is simply another option, it has a lot going for it OTHER THAN fuel economy. I don't tow, but I didn't buy it for "saving money" either. I looked at it as a better engine than the V6 w/o the expense and fuel consumption of the V8. Sort of a middle ground.

I absolutely love mine, but never bought it expecting the diesel to "pay me back".
 
#24 ·
A diesel is a premium option for almost all categories with exception of G Class SUVs where it's the base engine and you have to opt for a gas v8. When UofMich did a study of diesel payback with ownership or selling after 3 year period this vehicle had the highest return than any other diesel / gas with the Dodge 2500 with Cummins the lowest (Cummins motors get shitty mileage - on par with the gas v8s).
 
#27 ·
I'm paying $2.10 for diesel, that's about what I was paying for gas. so, considering I was only getting an 'honest' 15 mpg. now I'm roughly 10 more mpgs! yeah, it hits ya hard in the pocket at first, but I look at it as fuel savings and I wont have to buy another vehicle for a couple more years than I would if I were driving my 2011 ram 1500 hemi... the hemi has 70k and needed $3500 worth of work; front end, brakes, manifold bolt replacement, oh and tires.
:thumbsup:
 
#29 ·
So far I'm not seeing that much of a savings in choosing the diesel vs. the V6.
Well, there's your problem...

You're comparing to the V6. You should be comparing to the V8, which is a more comparable engine.

The V6 and the Diesel are not anywhere close to equal in power and performance. You may as well be comparing a Ford Explorer to a Super Duty F-250.

The V6 is a family hauler. The diesel Jeep is a boat and camper hauler. You get the V6 to go to the beach with the wave runner. You get the diesel to launch your cabin cruiser at the marina.

The V6 will net you about 12 MPG hauling close to capacity. The diesel will still get you well over 20MPG for the same weight, with the ability to tow another half a ton available.
 
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