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  #13  
Old 06-29-2014, 03:33 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

I'm thinking that owners need to plan on how they handle DEF refills mainly dependent upon the climate they live in.

In summer and in places where it is normally warm (don't fill up the tank as it will expire before it gets to empty). Instead be mindful of where you park (try to find shade so the parking lot oven doesn't bake the Jeep. Remember it can get up to 140 degrees inside on a hot sunny day (or 120 degrees asphalt temp where the Jeep will be sitting and getting convection). Instead wait til you get down to 1/4 tank then refill up with only a 2.5 gallon jug (no more). Keep extras as supply in your house or best basement in the coldest place (as it degrades much faster in warmer temps). I am letting mine get low then will only add 2.5 gallons at a time to a max of 1/2 tank at all times.

In the winter or cooler climates you can fill it all the way up but I will likely continue the strategy of only putting in the 2.5 gallons to fill it up to 1/2 all the time.

That is until we can delete the DEF system and get rid of this problem altogether. I wonder if it will pass emissions without it...

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  #14  
Old 06-29-2014, 04:04 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

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Originally Posted by jaje View Post
but I will likely continue the strategy of only putting in the 2.5 gallons to fill it up to 1/2 all the time.

That is until we can delete the DEF system and get rid of this problem altogether. I wonder if it will pass emissions without it...
Agree 100%. My situation proved that adding fresh DEF can "freshen up" a bad tank...but only if you aren't full already. 50% full will be my new fill limit.

I actually don't mind the DPF as much as the DEF injection and CAT. I will delete this crap as soon as there is a viable method. There are no emissions test in my locale. Besides, I bet I can get nearly 40 mpg at 65 mph with a turbo back 3 inch exhaust and good tune.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Suck it out with a mighty-vac extractor and spray it on your lawn .
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2014, 05:11 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by wapshuffle View Post
Suck it out with a mighty-vac extractor and spray it on your lawn .
I tried on two occasions to siphon the DEF tank. I used 3 different tube sizes, all rigid plastic. Unfortunately, it was impossible to get a hose far enough down the fill neck to reach the DEF level. Does anyone know where the tank is located? It needs a drain valve installed on it.
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2014, 05:42 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

DEF Temperature vs. Estimated*Useful Life

32F (0C) Indefinite
50F (10C) 75 Years
68F (20C) 11 Years
86F (30C) 23 Months
95F (35C) 10 Months
104F (40C) 4 Month!!
122F (50C) 1 Month!!!!
140F (60C) 1 Week!!!!!!!!!?????

So I baked my DEF tank sitting in a Florida asphalt parking lot while vacationing.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2014, 07:07 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Cool - updated the FAQ based on your info. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 06-29-2014, 09:22 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

It certainly seems like sound advice to be very cautious filling from a garage pump, since you can't be sure of the quality of the DEF. As ExcursionDiesel recommends, I would only add a bit as needed rather than filling up at such locations. That said, I am less worried about good DEF going bad in my vehicle during the summer.

DEF is 32% urea in distilled water, and prolonged exposure to high temperatures can reduce the urea concentration. DEF doesn't go "bad" as it is exposed to heat, the urea concentration just falls below spec. Vehicles are calibrated to use more DEF it if the urea concentration falls below 32%, so the only deleterious consequence of having DEF in the vehicle exposed to very high summer temperatures should be that the product will be used up more quickly than usual.

Under extreme heat conditions it's possible for the urea concentration to fall too far for the vehicle to cope with by calibration adjustment, but that's unlikely for most of us. The shelf life estimates for product in inventory are based on the average daily temperature not a given day's maximum temperature. Even in Phoenix the extended average daily temperature is rarely above 95deg, and for most locations the average is significantly lower.

Theoretically, we could compensate for effects of the summer heat by adding concentrated urea to the tank to bring the DEF back to spec. ExcursionDiesel's
solution of adding fresh DEF to a low tank of degraded DEF effectively does that.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2014, 01:16 AM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Where would one buy concentrated Urea? My next predicament may be that I get a P2BA9 code again while my tank is still full!
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  #21  
Old 06-30-2014, 09:13 AM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

I think that using an average daily temp is a good start point but the owner should also keep in mind where you park especially in hot weather such as in a parking lot (like black asphalt) that is baked all day to 100 degrees plus+. I race cars so we check track temps during races and it is often 10-15 degrees hotter than the air temp (even up to 140 degrees we've seen on a really hot and humid day as the heat cannot escape - and the heat then stays long after the sun goes down irradiating it and holding a warmer temp as well). In fact we cooked an egg one time in the pits just to see if it worked (no we didn't eat it).
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2014, 11:35 AM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Took mine to the dealer after getting the incorrect DEF warning. They did a regenation on the catalytic system but had to order a tool from Jeep to test the DEF. Drove it a week and got the shutdown in 200 mile, then 150 miles so I took it back to the dealer. After 4 days of testing (jeep sent them 26 pages of protocol) they replaced the DEF pump with one removed from a floor model- still no help. Finally they decided the catalytic converter would have to be replaced. Now waiting a week for that to arrive but they put my Jeep back together and I can drive it. I will be ordering the extended warranty soon.....
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Old 06-30-2014, 11:48 AM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaje View Post
...That is until we can delete the DEF system and get rid of this problem altogether. I wonder if it will pass emissions without it...
Not in any of the 7 (or so) "Clean Air" States. They're too dirty for those states, thats why in order to make a Diesel 50 State Legal, all Diesel engines had to be re-engineered with DEF & Catalyst systems.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2014, 12:20 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelb View Post
Took mine to the dealer after getting the incorrect DEF warning. They did a regenation on the catalytic system but had to order a tool from Jeep to test the DEF. Drove it a week and got the shutdown in 200 mile, then 150 miles so I took it back to the dealer. After 4 days of testing (jeep sent them 26 pages of protocol) they replaced the DEF pump with one removed from a floor model- still no help. Finally they decided the catalytic converter would have to be replaced. Now waiting a week for that to arrive but they put my Jeep back together and I can drive it. I will be ordering the extended warranty soon.....
If they didn't drain and refill with fresh DEF, they should have. Usually its the simple problems that are overlooked. Also, the NOx sensor could be faulty. Let us know when your "part changers" figure it out
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