Incorrect DEF - See dealer - Page 8 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #85  
Old 08-17-2014, 06:37 PM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
The newer batches don't stamp the date code on the outside. The only stamp is on the bottle. What you are seeing is Walmart's inventory control label. If you buy it and crack open the box, the stamp on the bottle is probably going to be about 3-4 weeks earlier than the inventory control label. So, the batch in your photo is pretty fresh. I bought a box with a Walmart label of June 24. The stamp on the bottle was June 5. So, piece of advice. If the date code is stamped on the outside of the box, don't buy it.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage


Do you know why the top box with the 11 digit code stamped on the box doesn't conform to the expected digit 3 & 4 of "14" or "15"?

__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #86  
Old 08-17-2014, 06:42 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 162
Thanks: 2
Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 1621
JEB1 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
Do you know why the top box with the 11 digit code stamped on the box doesn't conform to the expected digit 3 & 4 of "14" or "15"?

No. I just know that Peak evidently stopped using the outside stamp sometime in the last 18 months. I visited two Walmarts within 10 miles of each other. One had boxes with the exterior code and inventory labels of February 2013. I stayed far away. The other store had boxes with no exterior code stamp at all and an inventory label of June 24. I bought that one and so far no problems. I'm not going to bother decoding boxes with the outside stamp. I just won't buy them and keep looking.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:39 PM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

So I just bought the container I had a photo of three posts ago and the date on the container inside was 6/16/14 whereas the date on the outside of the box was 8/14/14. This data point supports your theory on the dates being very close… I believe it. Also I am going to avoid those old stamped boxes as my car has the "See dealer for DEF system service" showing up now on the screen. Guess I will see if they can drain the tank and fill it with this new stuff to see if that fixes it.

Pic of the date stamp from the inside container is below for everyones reference(date stamp is top left number):
__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #88  
Old 08-18-2014, 05:56 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 162
Thanks: 2
Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 1621
JEB1 is on a distinguished road
Incorrect DEF - See dealer

I think that date code is actually July 17. 167 days left in the year means it was made on the 198th day of the year. That's July 17-- a little less than one month before the inventory code, which is about the right time frame. That's about as fresh as it gets.

As for the fault code, make sure your dealer tries the TSB to clear the fault code before heroics. Mine threw the same fault code last month before I added DEF. The update fixed the issue. Your fault code could be a coincidence. You might have added DEF at the same time the software bug reared it's ugly head.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-18-2014, 07:57 AM
jaje's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 354
Thanks: 6
Thanked 72 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3732
jaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond reputejaje has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
This is a fascinating thread, but I am confused about the proposed degeneration chemistry. Sustained extreme heat will release ammonia as a gas, but this should merely reduce the urea concentration. Is the idea here that the ammonia then precipitates as crystals because of impurities introduced into the DEF tank? From what source?
First off I think it's actually not the crystals forming because of evaporation but rather the actual chemical imbalance caused by the heat the DEF tank is subjected to. I think it's a real concern as some members are running into problems with DEF which is leading to their vehicles being incapacitated for very long periods of time (as dealers try to figure out what's wrong and go through a troubleshooting part replacement process which seems to be a failed catalytic converter). Thus was born this theory that degrading DEF may lead to catalytic converter failure. There now comes in the chemistry as to what happens to the solution DEF when it degrades over time. The theory was that temperature has a significant affect which lead me to what environment and circumstances do those who are having these issues under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
Has anyone found any literature suggesting that degradation of DEF within the vehicle is seen as a serious concern? I have had no luck finding any evidence to support it. To the contrary, I have only seen reassuring comments suggesting that SCR systems are designed to be tolerant of the likely change in urea concentration accompanying the heat of summer. As Victory Blue puts it:
FICTION: DEF degradation will be a major problem

FACT: Diesel Exhaust Fluid doesn’t degrade nearly as quickly as people assume. For example, at 86°F, DEF has a shelf life of a year. REMEMBER: Do not equate shelf life to spoiling like food, as DEF will not go bad. IT will lose some effectiveness, and the SCR will dose at a higher rate, but it won’t “go bad.”
I would like to know this info as well. But I'd suggest considering not the ambient air temp (as stated 86 degrees) but rather consider the actual temp of the surface the Jeep is parked on. Reason why is we park in parking lots that usually have no shade and are subject to solar rays for most of the day. The problem is a black asphalt parking lot acts just like a natural oven - it gets much hotter than average ambient air temp and then acts as a heat sink holding heat into the evening transferring it to anything parked on it (thus subjecting it to much higher temps for almost the entire day).

I do know this to be fact as I have done track temp testing (I'm a car racer) with a laser thermometer and I've seen readings up to 20 degrees hotter than what a thermometer of ambient air temp says. On the flip side is just being in the shade on natural grass can be 10 degrees cooler. Anyone can repeat this experiment so it's actual fact.

My goal is to try to get some sampling of members from who has had this problem and who has not by gathering data of where they live, where they park, how long, have they had any issues, etc. I also want to better understand the chemistry behind what happens to degraded DEF from exposure to high heat - maybe it upsets the PH balance making it more acidic or base. When you change the temperature it changes the equilibrium of the solution either by evaporation or chemical process into some other concentration.

I'll start with mine.

Ambient air temps this summer have been from the 70's to upper 90's. Moved from KS to NJ this summer as well and live in mountainous area where we see highs of upper 70s this summer.
I park almost always in the shade or garage as well
Tow frequently about 2-3x a month and do mostly highway driving with no short stops.
Only DEF problem I had was from damage to nozzle from splashing through a puddle on highway - took 1 week to get replaced.
Fill DEF tank only to 1/2 tank and keep extra bottle in house in cool / dry place with no shade.
Currently 8,600 miles and no other issues.
__________________
'14 XV Crosstrek
#74 Exomotive Exocet NASA ST3 / E0
'14 WK2 EcoDiesel (replaces '07 WK CRD)
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 08-18-2014, 09:44 AM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Well got a reply already from the manufacturer of the DEF blue and they said the manufacturing date of my fluid in the picture above (with 11 digit stamp on box not the sticker pic) was made in November 2013. This fluid shouldn't be bad already... Car is in the hands of a local service department with only 2 techs on hand who are diesel qualified and have only worked on one diesel before. I shared info from this site about them checking TSB and then draining and refilling tank but we will see what they actually do.

This sucks... Supposed to be leaving for a 1 week trip this Saturday across state lines.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 08-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 162
Thanks: 2
Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 1621
JEB1 is on a distinguished road
Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
Well got a reply already from the manufacturer of the DEF blue and they said the manufacturing date of my fluid in the picture above (with 11 digit stamp on box not the sticker pic) was made in November 2013. This fluid shouldn't be bad already... Car is in the hands of a local service department with only 2 techs on hand who are diesel qualified and have only worked on one diesel before. I shared info from this site about them checking TSB and then draining and refilling tank but we will see what they actually do.

This sucks... Supposed to be leaving for a 1 week trip this Saturday across state lines.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage

Don't assume it's bad DEF yet! Get that TSB applied. It might fix your problem. It fixed mine.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 08-18-2014, 10:14 AM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
Don't assume it's bad DEF yet! Get that TSB applied. It might fix your problem. It fixed mine.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
I made sure to tell them about the TSB first and told them to work on that before anything else. Do you know what the TSB encompasses? I had all of the outstanding TCM/ECM updates installed early last week so I wouldn't think I need any software changes.
__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 08-18-2014, 11:06 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 162
Thanks: 2
Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 1621
JEB1 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
I made sure to tell them about the TSB first and told them to work on that before anything else. Do you know what the TSB encompasses? I had all of the outstanding TCM/ECM updates installed early last week so I wouldn't think I need any software changes.

You should always have this link at hand:

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_tsb.htm

The TSB I'm referring to was issued or reissued as RRT 14-028 on July 11. The dealer should have applied it, but I know my dealer initially missed it and I had to have them do it again. It might be worth printing out the TSB/RRT and handing it to the service tech just to make sure.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 08-18-2014, 11:18 AM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
You should always have this link at hand:

Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 - 2011-2016 Grand Cherokee Service Bulletins and Recalls

The TSB I'm referring to was issued or reissued as RRT 14-028 on July 11. The dealer should have applied it, but I know my dealer initially missed it and I had to have them do it again. It might be worth printing out the TSB/RRT and handing it to the service tech just to make sure.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Haha, I should have known to look there… sorry been out of the Jeep Garage loop for a bit.

So after reviewing the updates they did LAST WEEK it appears they installed the wrong one per me looking at the Invoice they gave me of their visit. They installed 18-018-14 REV A instead of REV C…. :slap fight: I just called and left a message for the service guy I was working with to call me so I can tell him to install this newer version per the TSB. We shall see if this fixes it, if so I owe you.
__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 08-18-2014, 11:48 AM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,849
Thanks: 16
Thanked 287 Times in 197 Posts
Rep Power: 4230
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Does anyone have STAR case numbers and/or detailed info on the successful "fix" for this issue?

Mine is still in the shop waiting on a replacement brake part from a botched recall repair. When that is fixed, I would like to provide some good info for the diesel mechanic to get to the root of the problem without unnecessary parts swapping and wasted time.
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 08-18-2014, 12:53 PM
JustinB60's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Thanks: 42
Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 2160
JustinB60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Gah, my dealership may be full of idiots. Just got off the phone with the service manager and I asked him to look up TSB:18-018-14c, in reference to my "Incorrect DEF" message, he responded with a hesitation and a claim that the tech already checked for any TSB updates and didn't find anything outdated. So I said well can you look up RRT: 14-028 then? He said he would and then after a few moments just said yea I don't know I'll write this down and give it to the tech to look at. Ok so thats fine hopefully the technician actually does his job and looks this up. He proceeded to tell me that Chrysler asked his tech to scan the fluid and send it in to the engineers to analyze since "I had used aftermarket fluid". I responded with the fact that I used the exact fluid called out in the owners manual. He stammered a bit and said "yea well Chrysler will look at it and let us know whats wrong with it".

I think I've come to terms with the fact I'll have to find yet another dealership to go to in the Cincinnati area.
__________________
Ordered 8/10/13:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Diesel 3.0L | Luxury II Pckg | Tow Pckg | Engine Block Heater
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rack Cross Bars - Thule Fit Guide incorrect K3LAG Interior/Exterior/Visual/Lighting 24 06-10-2015 08:29 AM
Service DEF - See Dealer cwmccall 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0 79 06-10-2014 11:52 AM
Outside temp incorrect banjonut Troubleshooting/Problems Discussion 6 06-28-2013 06:15 AM
Time Incorrect BobsWK2 Audio/Visual/Navigation 4 11-29-2011 09:22 AM
P0731 Gear 1 Ratio Incorrect jas535 Troubleshooting/Problems 1 08-14-2010 02:59 PM

» Premium Vendor Showcase
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.