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  #97  
Old 08-18-2014, 02:29 PM
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Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
Gah, my dealership may be full of idiots. Just got off the phone with the service manager and I asked him to look up TSB:18-018-14c, in reference to my "Incorrect DEF" message, he responded with a hesitation and a claim that the tech already checked for any TSB updates and didn't find anything outdated. So I said well can you look up RRT: 14-028 then? He said he would and then after a few moments just said yea I don't know I'll write this down and give it to the tech to look at. Ok so thats fine hopefully the technician actually does his job and looks this up. He proceeded to tell me that Chrysler asked his tech to scan the fluid and send it in to the engineers to analyze since "I had used aftermarket fluid". I responded with the fact that I used the exact fluid called out in the owners manual. He stammered a bit and said "yea well Chrysler will look at it and let us know whats wrong with it".



I think I've come to terms with the fact I'll have to find yet another dealership to go to in the Cincinnati area.

I hate to say this, but you should seriously consider printing out the TSB/RRT and physically handing it to them. It has a bunch of fault codes listed in it. Tell them to put the goddamn OBDII scanner on, and if one of the fault codes in the TSB appears, then apply the fix. It's not that hard.


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  #98  
Old 08-18-2014, 02:32 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

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Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
I hate to say this, but you should seriously consider printing out the TSB/RRT and physically handing it to them. It has a bunch of fault codes listed in it. Tell them to put the goddamn OBDII scanner on, and if one of the fault codes in the TSB appears, then apply the fix. It's not that hard.


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I made the mistake of not doing this to begin with and now I don't have a car to drive it over there…
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  #99  
Old 08-18-2014, 02:37 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
I made the mistake of not doing this to begin with and now I don't have a car to drive it over there…

Lemme guess. Your dealership is owned by a descendent of Rube Goldberg.


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  #100  
Old 08-18-2014, 02:54 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

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Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
Lemme guess. Your dealership is owned by a descendent of Rube Goldberg.


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Haha, I will have to look into this.

So in that short period of time the service manager called me back again. They tested the fluid in the empty container I brought in (old fluid container must have had a drop left in it!??!) and said the fluid was fine. Chrysler told them to look in the filler spout to see if there is any crystallization of the fluid at the filler neck and there actually was a little evidence of this. Since there was evidence of some crystallization they were told to drop the tank and clean it out completely.

Here is the interesting part though, the service manager claims there is a STAR report out there saying that this Peak Blue DEF fluid is being investigated for clogging MANY people's tanks and injectors up and that the Chrysler DEF fluid only is allowed to sit on shelves for 30 days and thats why it is better to use the Chrysler stuff over the Peak which can sit on shelves for 2 years. He THEN proceeds to tell me they will drop the tank and put a little DEF in and send me on my way. I informed him that I'd like it to come home with the same amount of DEF fluid as it went in with, since he is telling me my 2 containers of NEW Peak Blue DEF fluid also should not be used since its in this STAR report and that the Jeep manual is telling us to use it. He's going to "look into it" as the warranty will only cover a certain amount of replacement fluid. I fear this fix won't work but we shall see.

This is getting almost humorous, I just better have a working vehicle that'll last me for a few thousand miles without incident since I am leaving on this trip!
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  #101  
Old 08-18-2014, 03:02 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Does anyone have STAR case numbers and/or detailed info on the successful "fix" for this issue?

Mine is still in the shop waiting on a replacement brake part from a botched recall repair. When that is fixed, I would like to provide some good info for the diesel mechanic to get to the root of the problem without unnecessary parts swapping and wasted time.
I'll try to remember to ask for the case number next time I talk to services department...
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  #102  
Old 08-18-2014, 03:19 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post
Haha, I will have to look into this.



So in that short period of time the service manager called me back again. They tested the fluid in the empty container I brought in (old fluid container must have had a drop left in it!??!) and said the fluid was fine. Chrysler told them to look in the filler spout to see if there is any crystallization of the fluid at the filler neck and there actually was a little evidence of this. Since there was evidence of some crystallization they were told to drop the tank and clean it out completely.



Here is the interesting part though, the service manager claims there is a STAR report out there saying that this Peak Blue DEF fluid is being investigated for clogging MANY people's tanks and injectors up and that the Chrysler DEF fluid only is allowed to sit on shelves for 30 days and thats why it is better to use the Chrysler stuff over the Peak which can sit on shelves for 2 years. He THEN proceeds to tell me they will drop the tank and put a little DEF in and send me on my way. I informed him that I'd like it to come home with the same amount of DEF fluid as it went in with, since he is telling me my 2 containers of NEW Peak Blue DEF fluid also should not be used since its in this STAR report and that the Jeep manual is telling us to use it. He's going to "look into it" as the warranty will only cover a certain amount of replacement fluid. I fear this fix won't work but we shall see.



This is getting almost humorous, I just better have a working vehicle that'll last me for a few thousand miles without incident since I am leaving on this trip!

I'm not sure I'm buying their explanation about crystallization. I agree that Peak may be allowing retailers to keep DEF on the shelves too long but your particular box wasn't all that old and it tested fine, as they themselves admitted. As for crystallization in the neck, I find it hard to believe that that wouldn't happen with even the freshest DEF, after pouring it in and giving it time to dry.


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  #103  
Old 08-18-2014, 07:42 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB60 View Post



Here is the interesting part though, the service manager claims there is a STAR report out there saying that this Peak Blue DEF fluid is being investigated for clogging MANY people's tanks and injectors up and that the Chrysler DEF fluid only is allowed to sit on shelves for 30 days and thats why it is better to use the Chrysler stuff over the Peak which can sit on shelves for 2 years.

I think this claim is absurd. My 2014 GC EcoDiesel was the first delivered to Texas back in Nov 2013. I suspect the dealer used Mopar DEF on the first fill as they made a mess filling the tank (perhaps it required a funnel). However, since then, my Jeep has had nothing but Peak BlueDEF, and I have not had a single DEF issue in 16K miles.

I don't think Mopar DEF is sacred, it's a private label from one of the same suppliers. The urea % spec is very tight, so there is not much room for variables. The crystallization is caused by air contamination, although very cold temps will turn it into a slurry. DEF is very easily contaminated; I read somewhere that one teaspoon of salt will contaminate an entire tanker full of DEF. If you check the websites, you will see that most suppliers "guarantee" quality of product for 12 months in use. I would not store for twelve then use it

I prefer to purchase DEF in factory-sealed containers and I like the drip- free nozzle Peak includes with its packaging. Peak may sit on shelves at some retailers for two years, but I'm not buying it.

There are many manufacturers of DEF and thousands of distributors in NA. Most DEF manufacturers produce to API certification and compliance to ISO 22241. Most also publish documents on best practices for storage, all being very similar. Here are the primary manufacturers in no particular order.

Air1 DEF
Yara, Inc. Tampa, FL
Manufactures in Canada
Largest supplier of DEF in the world.
Distributed by DeliveryOne Network.
Www.Deliveryonenetwork.com

AIrX DEF
Airgas, Inc., Randor, PA
Distributed by Airgas Specialty Gases
In Canada, MacEwen C-Stores
Www.Airgasspecialtyproducts.com

Peak BlueDEF
Old World Industries, Northbrook, IL
Very wide distribution network:
AutoZone, Walmart, Pep Boys, Ace, Target, O'Reilly, others
Www,PeakHD.com

Blue Sky DEF. (AdBlue in Europe)
Blue Sky East LLC, Prime Lube - NJ
Distributed through oil jobbers
Www.Blueskydefna.com

Victory Blue DEF
Div of Victory Diesel, Keller, TX
Online ordering available.
Good DEF calculator.
Www.Govictoryblue.com

H2Blu DEF. (Canada)
Div of Wakefield Canada
Wide network of auto parts stores and auto dealerships, and online.
Www.H2Blu.ca

There are many other blending companies that sell bulk and private label only.

I am interested to see what details fall out of sharing DEF data and problem reports. Thanks for sharing.











1 / 2.5 gal / totes and tankers.
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  #104  
Old 08-18-2014, 10:09 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

I am attaching a scan of the diagnostic they did on my Jeep for anyone who is interested. So far I have put on over 700 miles since the repair most of them pulling a small trailer, and so far so good.
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  #105  
Old 08-18-2014, 10:26 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRatICMP3 View Post
I am attaching a scan of the diagnostic they did on my Jeep for anyone who is interested. So far I have put on over 700 miles since the repair most of them pulling a small trailer, and so far so good.
Perfect...now THAT will be helpful to the technician. Thank you sir!
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  #106  
Old 08-20-2014, 12:26 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

I read recently where a VW Toureg TDI owner got a false "Low DEF Fluid" warning and a 1500 mile countdown. He drained his DEF tank, added distilled water, sloshed it around, drained it and then refilled with fresh DEF. The false warning went away and his problem was solved. He theorized that crystalized ammonia had clogged up the level sensors and produced the false level trigger.

I didn't think much of it until I read this thread and the dealer report on crystalized ammonia causing a clog on the DEF injector. Seems as if it might be a recurring issue.

So this next link might be a solution if you get a bad or old batch of DEF fluid, or your fluid goes bad while in the vehicle. It's from a small company that makes pure urea pellets that enable you to make your own fresh DEF by adding distilled water. They claim that in dry pellet form it's unaffected by heat, safe to store and easy to mix with distilled water to make DEF fluid. It might not be cost effective for everyday use, but seems like it could be very useful for emergencies and having on board for unexpected situations on the highway.

If it works as advertised, it might be an alternative to having to drive to the dealer and wait while they figure out what to do. It might be possible to drain the DEF tank, flush it with distilled water, than add your own freshly made DEF fluid.

Being in pellet form, it would be easy to keep some in the vehicle for emergency use, I would think.

FYI only, I don't have a way to check this out (thankfully) as I don't have a DEF equipped diesel.

Link below:

http://www.fivestardef.com/about

Five Star DEF is a family-owned and run business that sells pelletized, technically pure urea in sealed, reusable jugs. When mixed with distilled pure water, it produces Aqueous Urea Solution 32, commonly known as DEF. Five Star DEF meets or exceeds the quality requirements of ISO-22241. We also run a blog to provide up-to-date knowledge of DEF and provide a collaborative forum for our users.

The company is named after the 5 ways that our product is better than the bulk product at pumps and the 1 or 2.5 gallon containers on the market.

5-Year Shelf Life - Unlike liquid products, Five Star DEF last 5 years unmixed and storage life is not temperature dependent.
Environmentally Friendly - Our reusable container, pure urea refills, and your local supply of distilled water conserve resources.
Superior Purity - Our pure urea and distilled pure water you buy at the grocery store result in the freshest and purest DEF available.
Safer Storage - Our products can be stored safely and cleanly in your vehicle, camper, or home.
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  #107  
Old 08-20-2014, 02:13 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

There's a novel idea....go buy distilled water and mix in urea...viola! Fresh DEF.
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  #108  
Old 08-20-2014, 02:37 PM
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Re: Incorrect DEF - See dealer

So dealer called me last night and told me he had to order "some catalyst injector" for my jeep as their previous efforts to fix it by simply cleaning the DEF tank did not work. Said it'd take weeks to get it in because it is ok back order. I asked for more details but was pained by his inability to tell me much of anything useful.

Anybody else starting to lose faith in the fact that they actually know how to fix this? Just for curiosity sake I looked up lemon law here in Ohio and if the part really does take weeks to get here, and it still isn't fixed, then I have a good case for a refund or new replacement. Food for thought....

This emissions system SUCKS! Why do they have to prohibit the vehicle from starting after 200 miles!?!?!?


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