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  #1  
Old 11-19-2014, 04:01 PM
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Increased emissions pressure

Just found the following on the BBC news feed. Will be interesting to see how this affects future diesels.

BBC News - Court puts more heat on diesels

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  #2  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:04 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

I could be wrong but I think our standards exceed Europe's already...remember they are dictated by Kalifornia. NOx emissions are reduced drastically by the SCR system on our Jeeps. Not all countries require it...or haven't fully adopted them yet. Heck...the Aussie's don't even have to add DEF...yet.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:13 AM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

It's funny because I have had multiple companies and a lot of regular ppl from around the world contact me to purchase my plate or sell it for me.

My response, " um, ok if you want to, but pretty sure this is a North America kinda deal". But hey if u want it , I'll sell it. Just saying lol
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:42 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

ED is correct that US is one of the very few countries that require the SCR system and the push in EU / UK is to limit nox emissions which is only treated by SCR systems (DPF only treat soot). On the flip side gas engines emit much higher levels of CO2 and direct injection gas engines have had a significant increase in NOX emissions as well and emit almost as much as a comparable light vehicle diesel engine does without an SCR system.
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Old 11-24-2014, 02:33 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

I can't speak to whether U.S. emissions requirements are the world's toughest or not, but I have no problem if this is in fact the case. I am confident our engineers are up to the task, and my vote would be to put the pressure on them to figure out how to set the bar high for the rest of the world, rather than to pressure the EPA to reduce standards. My wife and I just back from a long trip in South Asia (Inda and Nepal), where the air in every city is foul beyond words. It was great to breathe our air when we got home, and I am thrilled that we are trying to prevent that condition here and hope the rest of the world will follow along. I read that China has finally decided to move in this direction. Specific to the Jeep diesel (which I love), this means my focus would be on urging Jeep's engineers to redouble their efforts to resolve the problems we have been experiencing as opposed to reducing the effectiveness of the Jeep's emissions controls.
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:09 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

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Originally Posted by Emersonjeep View Post
I can't speak to whether U.S. emissions requirements are the world's toughest or not, but I have no problem if this is in fact the case. I am confident our engineers are up to the task, and my vote would be to put the pressure on them to figure out how to set the bar high for the rest of the world, rather than to pressure the EPA to reduce standards. My wife and I just back from a long trip in South Asia (Inda and Nepal), where the air in every city is foul beyond words. It was great to breathe our air when we got home, and I am thrilled that we are trying to prevent that condition here and hope the rest of the world will follow along. I read that China has finally decided to move in this direction. Specific to the Jeep diesel (which I love), this means my focus would be on urging Jeep's engineers to redouble their efforts to resolve the problems we have been experiencing as opposed to reducing the effectiveness of the Jeep's emissions controls.
I'm all for clean air but EPA demands on diesel engines are out of balance with the engineering efforts and resulting cost the market is willing to bare. We as the consumer suffer, as usual.

I guess when our emission standards are so tough that it causes you or someone you know to lose their job or standard of living, then you may choose to moderate your position. I've watched factories close due to inequities in trade and all the red government tape. ALL countries need to adhere to emission standards FAIRLY. When we strangle ourselves economically while other countries are not playing fair, we place ourselves at great risk as a world leader.

Also, these overly aggressive EPA requirements have personally cost me 72 days in the shop and a huge inconveniece. If this issue occured outside of warranty, it would cost me $5k to repair. Beyond rediculous.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:19 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

Emerson Jeep and Excursion Diesel

I agree with both of you. I've been all over Asia and the air in the big cities is awful. On the other hand, we need to have standards that are attainable and understandable.

I don't know what happened with the new 2015 Ecodiesel standards since Chrysler is remaining quiet on the issue. But, thanks to you two guys and others on this forum, I figured out that I don't really need the diesel since I don't tow, and because of all the uncertainties and lack of full disclosure by Chrysler, I cancelled my order and have a nice new V-6 Overland in my garage. Tough choice but the wait was tough not knowing what was really going on.

I'll continue to monitor this forum with great interest and pleasure and will probably wish I had waited.........but good luck to you guys!
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Old 11-25-2014, 12:35 AM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

Two points. First, I agree that this is not a simple issue and that Jeep needs to get it right at its cost at the factory or under warranty. Jeep should not use us customers as guinea pigs at our expense in either time or money. Second, my need for a versatile tow vehicle smaller than a full size SUV or pick-up was indeed the reason for the diesel, and I personally would not even have considered fooling with all the extra emissions stuff if I did not love the towing capability. Would I have ordered the Jeep diesel if all the DEF problems had shown up in this forum before I took delivery? I honestly don't know. But I needed a TV with more oomph, and after a lot of research, I didn't like the poor in-town mileage or the horrible towing mileage of the V-8 gassers (as much because of their short range as any other factor), I had no use for a larger vehicle when not towing, and the competing diesel SUV's were either too big or much more expensive or both.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:34 AM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

The Jeep eco diesel is certified to US EPA Bin5 emission regulations. These are still more stringent than the Euro6 standards now coming into effect. The Euro cycle test is very easy by most accounts in that there is a lot of steady state driving and only a few accelerations during the test. There is only one emission test requirement here.

US emissions have the EPA75 (city and highway driving), SC03 (high ambient temp and AC on) and the very difficult US06 (high speed driving with hard accelerations).

Steady state driving is fairly light load and easy to have low NOx emissions. Transient driving (accels) tends to produce much more NOx emissions due to higher loads and combustion temperatures.

The US also has AECD (auxiliary emission control device) where there are 'not to exceed' limits on emission even outside the cycle tests. This is high altitudes, very high ambient temps, etc. This is where things are still a bit grey with the US codes. The EPA can do in 'in-use' validation test at any time and if the limits are exceeded the manufacturer must pay non-compliance fees and/or re-calibrate the engine with a service change.

The US also has stricter standards for OBD monitoring with the so-called "monitoring performance ratios". This is a nightmare for the engineers thus far and the EPA is still allowing some variances on these requirements as they are being phased in.

Outside the US, most countries have more focus on curtailing CO2 (major global warming gas). CO2 is almost a 1:1 ratio with fuel economy. Once the US catches up on CO2 regulations (think CAFE-corporate average fuel economy) by 2025, then you will see a bigger shift to smaller, lighter vehicles and way more use of lightweight materials in vehicles.

Hope this is helpful. GDE
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:28 AM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

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Originally Posted by GreenDiesel View Post
Hope this is helpful. GDE
Keith - are you in process of doing something for the WK2 diesel? That would be something!
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:15 PM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

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Originally Posted by jaje View Post
Keith - are you in process of doing something for the WK2 diesel? That would be something!

Certainly we are. We are working on the Ram tune first since it is a bigger seller, but the tune will port over to the WK2 once we have everything finalized. The goals will be similar to our current WK tuning, 3-5mpg gain, 1 second drop in 0-60 times, cleaner engine oil, less turbo lag, etc. We are not planning a dpf delete as this has too much baggage.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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Re: Increased emissions pressure

Keith, can you elaborate on the monitoring performance ratios? That's not a term I'm familiar with.

It is just crazy what governments are doing to engines. I read yesterday France intents to ban all diesels. So I guess they will replace them with direct inject gasser that produce as much No2 as a non-scr diesel. (Direct inject gasser also have increased particulate emissions as well, so here comes the dpf gas engines.)

Keith you might be able to answer this question. I read where IVECO has a truck engine that has such an efficient scr that it doesn't not need egr and can be tuned correctly (ie, proper timing for increased efficiency). Any chance that could be used in the US or are our no2 standard too high? That could be an emissions strategy that makes sense (after treatment only) and I could embrace. If we could get rid of the regeneration of the dpf, then we'd have something. Now we have junk that sabotages the whole reason for a diesel, heck, vehicle. Governments will not stop until they regulate us back to the stone age. No, wait I take that back, they'd want dpf's on our fire places.
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