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  #13  
Old 06-13-2014, 10:42 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

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Originally Posted by bluestar View Post
I would not run a newer diesel out of fuel. Most of them use fuel to cushion the injectors to quiet then down. I wouldn't worry about it anyway. I have had dot try to check fuel and he gave up cause he couldn't get the tube through the filter neck. I want about to tell him the easy way cause I was using off road fuel.
Hmmm...good points. I'll find out tomorrow how easy it is to get past that trap door when I siphon out as much as I can.

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  #14  
Old 06-14-2014, 12:45 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

I wouldn't sweat it.
I've been driving diesels for over 20 years (own a construction company) and the only time I've ever had my fuel checked is when I got pulled over by the state troopers for suspected of being overweight (I wasn't)
Just let the fuel get low, but DO NOT ever run a diesel dry and refil with road diesel.

You'll be fine..
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:53 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
The trick is to not refill until as near empty as possible. This reduces mixing of old and new fuel. But yes, I'm expecting 3 to 4 tanks minimum if I can run it low enough each time.

Does anyone know if running our VMs bone dry creates a hard start situation? I know the old mechanically injected diesels require bleeding if run dry. It seems a common rail would pickup new fuel and reprime without issue. I'm thinking about siphoning my tank as low as possible, grab a 5 gal can of clean diesel then run it until it quits, refuel from the can and drive to a service station to refill. I can burn the old dyed fuel in my tractor.
Draining the tank and immediately replacing with new fuel won't cause a hard start situation, as long as you don't dry crank the engine. I've removed the fuel tank on my 05 CRD Jeep VM diesel, drained the lines, added an in tank lift pump, added fuel, primed the lines, then restarted and it fired up instantly. No injector bleeding at all, just key on a couple of times prior to starting it to fill the fuel filter.

Just avoid dry cranking it.

That's bad for both the electric lift pump in the tank and the aluminum Bosch CP4.2 HPFP. They both depend on the fuel for their lubrication and cooling. If they're activated without fuel long enough, it can cause far more serious issues than just a hard start.

There have been a few issues with the CP4.2 aluminum HPFP's failing due to low fuel lubricity and contamination, re VW TDI CR Jetta's as well as Ford and GM trucks using the CP4.2 with contaminated fuel. You certainly don't want to do anything that increases your odds of a dry start or increased moisture in the fuel.

Running your tank low during normal driving increases the chance of the ULSD absorbing more moisture from the air than it would with a full tank, as it's more hygroscopic than the old low sulfur diesel fuel. You probably already know that as long as you've been driving diesels.

Honestly, I think you may be a bit too anxious over the dyed fuel. As long as it's ULSD and clean, you're fine mechanically. Legally, if your documentation is good, you have nothing to worry about. Companies that make Red Solvent 164 advertise its detection at dilution ratios of 1 to 20,000. That's about 16/100 of an ounce on a 26 gallon tank, so you're not going to be rid of it at detectable levels any time soon. That much will be on the inside of the in tank lift pump. Even if you removed the tank, wiped it dry and clean, filled it full of new fuel, the dyed fuel is still in the lines, filter, injectors and HPFP - As soon as you crank it up, they'll return some fuel to the tank and you're going to be right back to enough to meet the 1 part in 20,000 for detection. Detection at those levels isn't by color, it's electronic and it's used by the fuel industry for marking fuel for theft identification. If they have them, the fuel dippers probably do also.

You many also find draining the tank a bit more work than just siphoning it out. Jeep has been using something in the fuel filler line and tanks since at least 2005 that prevents a normal siphon hose from being used, at least on some of their models. I tried to siphon D2 out of mine (Liberty CRD VM diesel) back in 2005 and the hose simply could not reach the fuel tank.

If you're determined to drain the tank, you might want to check out an electric fuel drain pump from somewhere like Northern Tools and try to see if some small diameter plastic tubing will reach the bottom of your fuel tank.

Best wishes.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:47 AM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

I wouldn't sweat it, I have ran off road diesel for years in my truck. You most likely will not be checked. All the have to do is pull down your fuel filter and check. Last I heard it was a $5000 fine, our trucks in the yard were checked a couple times (underground utility contractor).
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:04 AM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

Update: I ran the full tank of ORD through. I noticed excessive regens on this tank. Apparently this fuel was substandard. It regened daily, sometimes within 60 to 100 miles. I added a healthy dose of Diesel Kleen and ran it down as low as possible.

I found out that 45 miles remaining in the EVIC means 45 miles remaining. I unintentionally ran it out to the point the motor stalled. It restarted and ran a few more miles to the closest station. I put 1 gallon in and ran it 20 more miles then refilled at Loves.

FYI...when run dry, it will draw air when stopping or cornering before the tank is bone dry. The motor will stall but restart easily if you coast to flat ground to restart. Don't stop on a steep angle or you may not restart. Don't accelerate or stop hard after restart and you MAY get mire 5 miles out of it. Also, you CANT restart in Neutral and the tranny automatically goes to neutral on engine stall. You can only coast to a stop then attempt a restart in park.

I just drove 250 miles on the fillup nonstop and no regens so far. I will run it to empty a few more times to get any remaining red dye out.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

One thought to consider - and it's speculation only - but the offroad diesel you got might not of been ULSD. I know it's mandated for on-road diesels since 2007. Thoughts to ponder.


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  #19  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:53 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

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Originally Posted by Jason911 View Post
One thought to consider - and it's speculation only - but the offroad diesel you got might not of been ULSD. I know it's mandated for on-road diesels since 2007. Thoughts to ponder.
I am almost convinced that it was LSD not ULSD although the label said ULSD on the pump. I was very careful to allow regens to complete because, at the rate they where occurring, my dpf would be plugged in no time...and I'd be limping to the shop with "improper fuel" and a denied warranty repair.

BTW...I successfully regened parked in my driveway on one occasion. It was already starting regen on the road and I noticed it while parking. I held RPMs at 1800 for about 6 minutes while it finished....not an easy task because the turbo makes the motor wants to run away. Holding a steady RPM requires a lot of focus. So this blows the theory that it must remain at 50 mph during regen. Also, if anyone attempts this, make sure to allow it to finish and then idle until CAT EGT is down below 450 °F before shutdown (about 2 minutes) to assure the DPF isn't still glowing red!
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2014, 03:38 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

Great info. Thanks for the investigative reporting!
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:14 PM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason911 View Post
One thought to consider - and it's speculation only - but the offroad diesel you got might not of been ULSD. I know it's mandated for on-road diesels since 2007. Thoughts to ponder.


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Fortunately, not very likely, as off-road diesel went from 500 ppm to ULSD in 2010. Even marine and railroad transitioned to ULSD in 2012.

There are a few exemptions for 500 ppm off-road diesel for a few small refineries, but those expire in 2014 and I'd think you'd be hard put to run across that fuel unless you live near some small midwestern towns. It's certainly possible, but not too likely.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:37 AM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

You're worrying too much about this man...there is not way someone is going to want to check the diesel in your Jeep. The local authorities probably wouldn't even be able to pick out a diesel GC from all the other ones they see...unless you are rolling coal or doing something stupid like that.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2015, 09:41 AM
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Re: Just filled up with Off Road Diesel

Filled at a sunoco in FL, didn't pay attention enough. First, pump was off to side, first clue. But put in 7 gal b4 notice 50 ppm low sulfur hwy diesel. Said not recommend for vehicles 2007 and later.

Stopped and went across street and got ultra-low sulfur 15ppm diesel

Opps


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  #24  
Old 03-30-2015, 10:08 AM
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I didn't realize anyone was still selling the higher sulfur fuel still. I never had to worry about it in my truck or the Jetta. I've been watching since I get the Jeep though.
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