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  #217  
Old 05-16-2015, 07:58 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

I almost bought one of the first ones. I'd like for the Eco diesel to succeed, but I feel like it was introduced too soon without enough testing. There are a lot of people on the Ram forums having issues as well. From reading here there are several people who have had there's in for service several times. I'm just wondering how many trips people are willing to make to get them fixed before they use their legal remedy. I'm sorry if I've rubbed you the wrong way, but you only want to hear how wonderful they are. FCA will continue to try to fix your ecodiesel until you finally get your fill and lemon law the darn thing. As far as being a pimple on your whatever, too bad it's a public forum and I'm not blowing sunshine to sooth your bent ego.


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  #218  
Old 05-16-2015, 09:10 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by Jsboening View Post
I almost bought one of the first ones. I'd like for the Eco diesel to succeed
That's not at all how your posts come off. They come off as happy the Ecodiesel has a problem - "All these hassles to save a few bucks on gas" and "I love my Eco diesel sooooo much. When it runs. Lol. You guys are hilarious. " are absolutely NOT the words of someone hoping the Ecodiesel succeeds. Those words are intentionally inflammatory. Hard to take them any other way.

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Originally Posted by Jsboening View Post
I'm sorry if I've rubbed you the wrong way
Doubtful.

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Originally Posted by Jsboening View Post
but you only want to hear how wonderful they are.<snip>As far as being a pimple on your whatever, too bad it's a public forum and I'm not blowing sunshine to sooth your bent ego.
Seriously? THAT's what you see? I'm on this specific thread daily because I expect I'll go through it like everyone else did and I want to know what's going on. I'm not on here to hear how wonderful they are! Why would anyone go to ANY online forum about ANY product to find out how wonderful it is? That NEVER happens. I want to know the truth. And the TRUTH is, this is an issue that affects a LOT of diesel owners, but it's NOT a major, lemon law worthy issue! Come on! The check engine light comes on, you get a flash. The check engine light comes on again you get a cat and SOMETIMES a DEF injector. End of story for MOST owners.

That is lemon law material? I would argue that it is only for someone that doesn't like the vehicle to begin with and is looking for a way out. The first people who got the P20EE MIL had trouble because FCA didn't know what was going on or exactly the best way to fix it. Seems like they're getting it under control now and it's getting fixed in a pretty consistent way. I can see why the early owners would have been worried and thinking about lemon laws.

Further, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT TYPICAL for the P20EE error to cause the vehicle to be inoperative. My MIL went out on it's own, others have driven HUNDREDS (thousands?) of miles with MIL on and no apparent difference in how the vehicle drives. It's SIMPLY NOT A BIG DEAL. I'll qualify that... TO ME!

What pisses me off is a non owner coming on here to "rub it in". "Ha, ha, should have sucked it up, been happy with 18 MPG (on a good day) and bought the Hemi." Well you know what? Maybe the Hemi is the right engine for you, maybe the Hemi is the right engine for LOTS of GC owners. BUT, I made a decision by testing the engine and weighting the pros/cons. FOR ME, the Ecodiesel was the right choice, and it STILL IS! How can you possibly know what caused us to choose the diesel? How could you? Your circumstances are completely different than mine, completely different than every other person who decided to buy a GC. I don't need the fastest car in the 1/4 (do you? Maybe, good on you, but I don't need that!!) I don't need to tow. I don't need great gas mileage (we have a Prius for that). I picked the engine for it's overall feel, and I felt it was the best compromise of the 3 choices. You didn't make that same decision, I'm OK with that. Why are YOU not OK with MY decision? Why can YOU not understand that this P20EE issue is NOT big enough to make me hate my choice or hate the car or go crying "lemon law, lemon law!"?

Do you see? I LOVE THE ECODIESEL! I LOVE THE HEMI, I'm OK with the 3.6. But that's me! I don't care what engine you chose, why do you care what engine I chose? Why does it matter so much to you? If I'm being honest (not to inflame, just seriously being honest) and using what (admittedly little) I know about you, I'd say you're here to justify your decision NOT to get the Ecodiesel. You see this problem and it makes you feel secure in your decision. If so, that's great. But again I say, your reasons for your choice are not my reasons for my choice.

So please, if you have something useful to offer other than "ha ha, the Ecodiesel sucks" then by all means stay around and provide us with that useful information - pro or con, good or bad, I don't care. Just please make it useful.

If, on the other hand, you have nothing USEFUL to give us, then PLEASE (for the 3rd time) go somewhere else. I hear PriusChat is looking for some trolls.
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  #219  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:10 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

Not everyone has the time or the patience to bring their $50k for service several times. I know, I did it with my SRT. A total of 52 days the two dealerships had my vehicle. In fact I just picked up my new replacement today. I really just wanted people to know there is an option and that option doesn't have to mean leaving jeep or the ecodiesel, but it at least gives you a choice. The more of these ecodiesels they have to buy back or replace the more likely they are to get these problems solved. Who wants a $50k vehicle with a car fax attached to it several pages long? Some people who continually have to bring in their ecodiesel for repairs are going to end up with just that. That in my opinion is why I would lemon law a troublesome ecodiesel. It's not fair for Chrysler to use consumers as guinea pigs for their untested products and allow the consumer to take the hit on the resale.

Wiz, I want to apologize for the way my post came off, but you were rude telling me to get lost when I stated that lemon lawing a troublesome ecodiesel is a viable option. A vehicle that is in the shop all the time is not worth it even if it gets 50mpg. What's your time and frustration worth? You act like lemoning a vehicle is like seeking a hand out, it's not, you are simply making the manufacturer make good on a product they sold you.

I'm sorry that I came off as a troll. Please accept my apologies.


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  #220  
Old 05-17-2015, 09:47 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

bringing everything back on topic. and those that don't own an ecodiesel, just lurk, educate yourself for whatever this forum does and doesn't provide. US sells 17m light vehicles a year, you don't like the ecodiesel go somewhere else.

back on topic for owners, what is the cause of this fault code (SCR catalytic converter?) and are parts replaced supposed to last longer than 17,000 miles? my 2014 on 17,000 miles the MIL came on. mechanically I can't tell if anything is wrong and made it back from a 700 mile trip to VA these last couple of days.
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:57 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

The only common problem reported is the emission equipment correct? The engine itself, which is most important by far, seems near flawless? The heavy duty diesel emission stuff is just now getting as reliable as the gas emission systems that went through all of these problems back in the day.

This is based on 100's of hours of forum reading and word of mouth.

The JGC Eco has an 8/80 emissions warranty I am counting on the bugs being worked out sooner than that and hope I am not wrong.

It's very likely I spend 55k plus on a full size diesel in the next 6-9 months.

Anyone else feel this is only an emissions issue? Thanks.

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  #222  
Old 05-17-2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

I can only speak from my experience. The motor is flawless and gets better mileage the more time it spends on the freeway. Power from 75-90 is stout and the chassis is equally stable throughout the MPH range. I never read the fine print to know emissions has a 8/80 warranty. That's good to know.
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  #223  
Old 05-17-2015, 12:04 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by karirick View Post
The only common problem reported is the emission equipment correct? The engine itself, which is most important by far, seems near flawless? The heavy duty diesel emission stuff is just now getting as reliable as the gas emission systems that went through all of these problems back in the day.

This is based on 100's of hours of forum reading and word of mouth.

The JGC Eco has an 8/80 emissions warranty I am counting on the bugs being worked out sooner than that and hope I am not wrong.

It's very likely I spend 55k plus on a full size diesel in the next 6-9 months.

Anyone else feel this is only an emissions issue? Thanks.
You essentially "got it". There's a problem with the def injector/cat/code working together. They'll get it eventually. The problem is an annoyance, causing typically 2-3 dealer visits to fix. So far there have been no confirmed repeat cat failures, though admittedly it may be too soon to tell. The problem is very widespread, but seems relatively minor, at least to me. I'm more tolerant than most of dealer visits probably. I'm a programmer with my own company and I work from home. When I have to visit the dealer my laptop goes with me and I lose almost no productivity. My office is very mobile.

The motor has been rock solid in Europe for years and seems to be solid here too.

There are a couple VERY isolated cases of the high pressure fuel pump going, but that seems extremely rare, I know of MAYBE 3 cases reported here and at jeepforums.
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  #224  
Old 05-17-2015, 02:32 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by stician View Post
I can only speak from my experience. The motor is flawless and gets better mileage the more time it spends on the freeway. Power from 75-90 is stout and the chassis is equally stable throughout the MPH range. I never read the fine print to know emissions has a 8/80 warranty. That's good to know.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. See page 3 of the 2014 warranty booklet. The catalytic converter and PCM are covered for eight years only on gas engines unless I'm missing something.

B. Gas - Parts Covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles

If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in Section 2.1(E). The covered parts are:

• catalytic converter; and

• powertrain control module.

The diesel emissions system is covered 3/36. It doesn't even get the benefit of the 5/100 powertrain warranty.


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  #225  
Old 05-17-2015, 04:06 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. See page 3 of the 2014 warranty booklet. The catalytic converter and PCM are covered for eight years only on gas engines unless I'm missing something.

B. Gas - Parts Covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles

If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in Section 2.1(E). The covered parts are:

• catalytic converter; and

• powertrain control module.

The diesel emissions system is covered 3/36. It doesn't even get the benefit of the 5/100 powertrain warranty.


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Those are the requirements as covered under the Federal warranty requirement. Every car bought in the US has that basic warranty. If you read the next section about the supplemental warranty it makes NO distinction between gas and diesel.

---

Emission Performance Warranty
This warranty supplements the federal warranty under 5.1. It lasts for 2 years or 24,000 miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first. If your vehicle has one of the following parts, catalytic converter and powertrain con- trol module, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first. These limits are counted from the time when your Basic Limited Warranty begins under 2.1(E). The Emission Performance Warranty covers the cost of repairing or adjusting any components or parts that might be needed for your vehicle to pass Federal
EMISSION WARRANTIES REQUIRED BY LAW
Emission Standards for a federally approved state or local emissions test, but only if:
• your vehicle has failed a federally approved state or local emissions test;
• your vehicle has been maintained and operated prop- erly up until it fails such a test; and
• you face a real penalty — for example, a fine or the loss of the use of your vehicle — because the vehicle has failed the test.
Section 6.4 explains how to get service under this warranty.
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  #226  
Old 05-17-2015, 05:00 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

Read pp. 21-23, which precedes the paragraph I quoted. Reading this section in its entirety, it makes a clear distinction between gas and diesel.


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  #227  
Old 05-17-2015, 10:35 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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back on topic for owners, what is the cause of this fault code (SCR catalytic converter?)
In my opinion it is design issue: the way the AdBlue injector is placed downstream it will be subjected to back pressure from exhaust gases after they hit the DPF. Bad news is that nothing was changed, new part looks exactly like the old, at least from outside. I am not sure if they redesigned the internals, but in my opinion only thing they can do is to increase the flow through the DPF, but this will reduce his efficiency, thus EPA problems.
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:26 PM
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my first MIL & P20EE

My 2014 has 18640 miles and was just serviced ten days ago. I had the Dealer add a gallon of DEF as I was down to about 25%. Tech scanned for codes and found nothing to report.

Was on the highway yesterday when I heard a chime and the MIL illuminated. Plugged in my ODII this morning and found a code P20ee. The exhaust completed a regen this morning and the MIL remains illuminated after several restarts.

Back to the dealer tomorrow...............
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