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  #373  
Old 06-26-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AirBull View Post
neither the DPF or SCR have anything to do with the exhaust, they are both clearly emission related and thereby should not be confused with being part of the exhaust system.
I share your opinion; however, Chrysler's system does not. Feel free to call them to see if you get a different answer about this than I did.

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  #374  
Old 06-26-2015, 05:44 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
what Jeep refers to as an "SCR Catalyst" may indeed be the same animal as a catalytic converter, making it subject to the federal 8/80 warranty.
Haha, actually, when I checked the law/regs some time ago I agreed with your original interpretation: the SCR cat is *not* a catalytic converter in the context of this federal law.

Per the EPA:
"Catalytic converters are critical emission control components that have been installed on most cars and trucks manufactured since 1975. Since engines don’t burn fuel completely during the combustion process, the exhaust contains a significant amount of harmful pollutants such as carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and oxides of nitrogen. The catalytic converter aids the conversion of these pollutants to less harmful substances such as carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen, and oxygen before the exhaust is expelled into the environment."

...which doesn't really fit the SCR catalyst.

Quote:
your phone call seems to suggest that Chrysler sees it that way.
Not necessarily: an alternative explanation is that they could be simply exceeding the legally-mandated minimum coverage. Call it "competitive advantage", "keeping up with the competition", "wanting to avoid regulatory hammers coming down", or "out of the goodness of their heart", depending on how you feel about FCA at the moment.

The relevant federal law is 42 USC 7541(i)(2). As you can see from (B), there is the possibility for the EPA to expand the list to include other parts as "Specified major emission control components" (i.e. future-proofing the law). Searching the CFR I couldn't find a current list of additional components (if indeed such a list even exists), but I imagine that the threat is there if an expensive part considered requisite to the performance of mandated emissions controls were *not* to be covered, then the Administrator could change that with a stroke of a pen.

Notwithstanding all of the above, it bears repeating for others who might be skimming this thread: DPF and SCR are covered under warranty for 8 years/80k miles (whichever comes first, as always)
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  #375  
Old 06-26-2015, 07:33 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post

Not necessarily: an alternative explanation is that they could be simply exceeding the legally-mandated minimum coverage. Call it "competitive advantage", "keeping up with the competition", "wanting to avoid regulatory hammers coming down", or "out of the goodness of their heart", depending on how you feel about FCA at the moment.

I am way too cynical to believe that Chrysler is covering these things out of the goodness of their hearts. I think an equally plausible explanation is that they are presuming--rightly or wrongly--that there isn't a functional difference between the cat on the diesel and a more traditional catalytic converter on a gasoline engine as far as the federal warranty is concerned. I thought that diesels didn't have catalytic converters. I was wrong about that. https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/diesel_exh_sys.php. If Chrysler is willing to take the bullet on a relatively expensive component like a cat for 8 years I suspect they either came to the same conclusion--that our cats and gas engine cats are the same for federal warranty purposes--or saw too much risk in pressing a distinction that ultimately might not hold up. Only thing we do know is that they aren't covering them under the MaxCare warranty, which is curious if their intention is altruism.


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  #376  
Old 06-26-2015, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JEB1 View Post
I think an equally plausible explanation is that they are presuming--rightly or wrongly--that there isn't a functional difference between the cat on the diesel and a more traditional catalytic converter
Perhaps, but that does not explain why the DPF is covered by the 8y/80k emissions warranty as well. The DPF is most definitely *not* listed in the law.
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  #377  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:26 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
Perhaps, but that does not explain why the DPF is covered by the 8y/80k emissions warranty as well. The DPF is most definitely *not* listed in the law.

No, it isn't and I don't have an explanation for it. Maybe we shouldn't alert Chrysler to that fact.


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  #378  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:58 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

My 2014 JGC WK2 was built in Oct 2013.
No real issues until 18640 miles on 05/18/15 when MIL illuminated & I read P20ee code.
05/20/15 tech did a manual regen, cleared the code and ordered a SCR Cat.
06/03/15 still waiting on parts, MIL illuminated and again read P20ee at 18840 miles.
06/09/15 tech replaces SCR, clears code. Mileage seems better but MPG average now changes frequently and dramatically. Definately not showing moving average over 300 miles. Last fill-up confirms mileage is not as good as prior 6 month's average!!!
6/28/15 MIL illuminates and read code P0133 for first time. Code = "O2 sensor circuit slow response (Bank 1, Sensor 1)."

Is this new code related to first one or result of work performed to replace SCR?
Has anyone else experienced a drop in mileage with the new CAT?
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  #379  
Old 06-28-2015, 11:28 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

We are looking to buy a used 2014 JGC Summit next week but it is not from a Dodge dealer. How can I tell if the Cat has been replaced? If I bring my code scanner will I be able to tell if the codes were cleared?
Would CarFax show the replacement? Will a dealer show me the records?
Who is a good Jeep dealer around the Denver area to deal with on possible issues in the future? Thanks for the great forum! I look forward to posting here (hopefully not with problems!)...
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  #380  
Old 06-28-2015, 12:50 PM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

I'd think any dealer who cared about earning your business would gladly run the VIN# for you. Any warranty work would be tied to it.


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  #381  
Old 06-30-2015, 08:10 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

*ding* 4th MIL (3rd recorded if I can get it to the dealer on time). Dealer did say they'd take it in this time, diagnosis and open a STAR case for mine. Service manager seemed to be aware of this issue popping up and sided with me. We shall see.
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  #382  
Old 06-30-2015, 08:22 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelMan86 View Post
*ding* 4th MIL (3rd recorded if I can get it to the dealer on time). Dealer did say they'd take it in this time, diagnosis and open a STAR case for mine. Service manager seemed to be aware of this issue popping up and sided with me. We shall see.
Ummm...has the dealer done ANYTHING? Flashes? cat replacement?
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  #383  
Old 06-30-2015, 11:42 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

None of that yet. They have reset and logged it 2 times now (waiting for the 3rd) and now they can bring it in and look into all of that.
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  #384  
Old 06-30-2015, 11:52 AM
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Re: MIL & P20EE again & again & again...

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Originally Posted by WheelMan86 View Post
None of that yet. They have reset and logged it 2 times now (waiting for the 3rd) and now they can bring it in and look into all of that.
Yeah, clearly they have no idea what they're doing. I have a rinky-dink little dealer and they immediately gave me the latest SW flash specifically for the P20EE issue even though my MIL had extinguished itself before I got there. My MIL has not returned.

At the VERY least they need to give you the latest flash when you visit and many dealers are immediately ordering a cat. This P20EE error is a simple problem to resolve if your dealer is even semi-competent. 2 or 3 visits tops and you should be DONE, not just starting. I'm not even sure why a "star case" is required at this point!
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