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  #25  
Old 10-06-2014, 11:58 PM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
But WHY? If it's all mechanical, it wouldn't behave this way. It would follow temperature and be consistant. It seems to be something with the timing of clutches that get corrected with a reset, then return over time. That should be correctable via programming.

I was playing around with RPM, throttle position, and manual shifting and got it to repeat the shudder. I'm going to pull F60 to reset and test my theory tomorrow.
I'm following this discussion with great interest, if not great understanding. Obviously ExcursionDiesel and Raven have specialized equipment and experience and know what they're looking for and what they're not happy with.

But I do know enough about mechanical issues to know that the engineers at Chrysler should be able to compute the outcome of a given transmission and rear-end ratio to know what the car will do all along the power, rpm, and torque curves. In addition, given the two modes, Sport and Eco, you'd think that there would not be such a big issue finding shift points that would work well and satisfy the vast majority of drivers.

My car still has not progressed along the production schedule beyond the "we have your order" status. Hopefully what you guys are saying is at least partially true - they won't build the 2015's until they figure out what they need to do.

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  #26  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:08 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by PlayGolf69 View Post
I'm following this discussion with great interest, if not great understanding. Obviously ExcursionDiesel and Raven have specialized equipment and experience and know what they're looking for and what they're not happy with.

But I do know enough about mechanical issues to know that the engineers at Chrysler should be able to compute the outcome of a given transmission and rear-end ratio to know what the car will do all along the power, rpm, and torque curves. In addition, given the two modes, Sport and Eco, you'd think that there would not be such a big issue finding shift points that would work well and satisfy the vast majority of drivers.

My car still has not progressed along the production schedule beyond the "we have your order" status. Hopefully what you guys are saying is at least partially true - they won't build the 2015's until they figure out what they need to do.
They could have built 10 jeeps as beta and not seen this issue. And to be honest all the test vehicles that are built early aren't built by Billy Bob and Mary Lou, they are built by the engineering team and specialized mechanics.
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:09 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by PlayGolf69 View Post
I'm following this discussion with great interest, if not great understanding. Obviously ExcursionDiesel and Raven have specialized equipment and experience and know what they're looking for and what they're not happy with.

But I do know enough about mechanical issues to know that the engineers at Chrysler should be able to compute the outcome of a given transmission and rear-end ratio to know what the car will do all along the power, rpm, and torque curves. In addition, given the two modes, Sport and Eco, you'd think that there would not be such a big issue finding shift points that would work well and satisfy the vast majority of drivers.

My car still has not progressed along the production schedule beyond the "we have your order" status. Hopefully what you guys are saying is at least partially true - they won't build the 2015's until they figure out what they need to do.
They will build the 15s. In cost vs revenue scenario it will favor them to sell the 15. I think the delay is 100% to do with the demand for the diesel ram.
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  #28  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:13 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

Let me be clear...I love my Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. It has some year 1 bugs...like shuddering on the 5 to 6 shift. I'm interested in making sure Jeep is committed to addressing these issues.

I think the shuddering issue is a control issue with their powertrain that can be adressed. The shudder is a mechanical resonance created by low rpm vibrations and the springs inside the torque converter. The timing of the torque converter lockup clutch and the transmission clutch packs engaging seem to set up a vibration that the powertrain controls are sensing and reacting to. Mine goes away when I reset the transmission learning then returns over time. The upcoming TSB may solve it...or at least make Jeep confirm that the issue requires upgraded parts to address. We'll see.

Btw, Raven is the expert here. I've been tinkering with diesels a long time and read a lot. I'm also an automation engineer with 25 years of machine design experience, both electrical and mechanical. I've seen and solved my share of driveline vibration issues on machinery due to inertia mismatch and torsional resonance.
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  #29  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:17 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by 2009RavenR1 View Post
They could have built 10 jeeps as beta and not seen this issue. And to be honest all the test vehicles that are built early aren't built by Billy Bob and Mary Lou, they are built by the engineering team and specialized mechanics.
Raven - very true, and don't get me wrong. I fully understand that some things just have to be tested to see if the engineering was accurate. But after a year of 2014's I would think they should have it by now.

I suppose it is also true that building a car with all the capabilities of the JGC that it is very difficult to please everyone all the time in any scenario!!
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:14 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Let me be clear...I love my Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. It has some year 1 bugs...like shuddering on the 5 to 6 shift. I'm interested in making sure Jeep is committed to addressing these issues.

I think the shuddering issue is a control issue with their powertrain that can be adressed. The shudder is a mechanical resonance created by low rpm vibrations and the springs inside the torque converter. The timing of the torque converter lockup clutch and the transmission clutch packs engaging seem to set up a vibration that the powertrain controls are sensing and reacting to. Mine goes away when I reset the transmission learning then returns over time. The upcoming TSB may solve it...or at least make Jeep confirm that the issue requires upgraded parts to address. We'll see.

Btw, Raven is the expert here. I've been tinkering with diesels a long time and read a lot. I'm also an automation engineer with 25 years of machine design experience, both electrical and mechanical. I've seen and solved my share of driveline vibration issues on machinery due to inertia mismatch and torsional resonance.
I thank you both! Nothing like knowledgeable customers to keep a manufacturer in line. I'm not an engineer, but used to be a pretty decent shade tree mechanic back when you could actually do things with wrenches and screwdrivers. Not any more. But I have a love and respect for machines bred from many years flying jets. Now I'll be happy to drive my Jeep when I get it!
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  #31  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:21 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

Am I one of the lucky ones......?

Our JGC has continued to run flawlessly, over mountain, hill and dale and also 80mph runs on the Interstates. Excellent mileage, with continued smooth shifts in Eco, Drive and Sport. This with 11K miles plus on it.

HOWEVER, I did experience ONE noticeable "bump" on the 2 to 1 downshift last week.

So do I have my own "sensors" tuned for any issues now...you betcha!!

I did not take it in for the first TCM reflash, as it continues to run smoothly and change gears well. However, if the latest reflashes work well, no one posts issues and it appears to have solved all the issues, I may just take it in.......just keeping status quo at the moment!
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  #32  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
Am I one of the lucky ones......?

Our JGC has continued to run flawlessly, over mountain, hill and dale and also 80mph runs on the Interstates. Excellent mileage, with continued smooth shifts in Eco, Drive and Sport. This with 11K miles plus on it.

HOWEVER, I did experience ONE noticeable "bump" on the 2 to 1 downshift last week.

So do I have my own "sensors" tuned for any issues now...you betcha!!

I did not take it in for the first TCM reflash, as it continues to run smoothly and change gears well. However, if the latest reflashes work well, no one posts issues and it appears to have solved all the issues, I may just take it in.......just keeping status quo at the moment!
IMO don't touch it if you're not having issues.
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  #33  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:10 PM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by 2009RavenR1 View Post
Well I got chrysler to agree if this flash isn't here in 3 weeks or this flash doesn't fix it in writing.
Hopefully it fixes it, but if not sounds like you're good to go..
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  #34  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:32 PM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by 2009RavenR1 View Post
IMO don't touch it if you're not having issues.
Yep. If it isn't broken, don't "fix" it! Not everyone is having issues. IMO, I think those of us with widely variable drawing habits may be driving the TCM learning function nuts...lol.
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  #35  
Old 10-07-2014, 02:29 PM
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Re: New ECM/TCM flash coming out

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Yep. If it isn't broken, don't "fix" it! Not everyone is having issues. IMO, I think those of us with widely variable drawing habits may be driving the TCM learning function nuts...lol.
The Allison has no issues lol
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 2009RavenR1 View Post
The Allison has no issues lol
Unless you change from stock to a 250hp race tune. Right?
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