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  #13  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:48 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepIdiot View Post
I just purchased my 2016 Ecodiesel GC limited on September 12th of last week, currently have 575 miles on it. Should I go and get an oil change to the new spec or just run it for the first 10k miles?
Don't worry if it still has the correct 5w30. I have 23,000 miles using only the right 5w30 and my Blackstone oil samples look almost perfect.

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Old 09-23-2016, 03:58 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

I have enough oil left of the Ultra Euro Pennzoil left for one more change at 45k miles and I sure as heck ain't wasting it. It may not be the new standard, but I don't have a worry in the world that is it damaging my engine...
I've had cars, trucks, ATV's, Harley's, Mowers, Tractors, Generators, Diesels and Gassers, Some are pushing 15 yrs old and worked every day, and cannot say I've ever had any oil related issues pertaining to engines as long as I've kept them changed and used the proper API weight as specified in the manual....
Synthetic, conventional, Amsoil to Wal mart brand.... Something else always does these units in before oil related engine failures do, that cause me to want to get a new one or sell it to the next party....
My opinion only....
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2016, 09:28 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

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Originally Posted by Stbentoak View Post
I have enough oil left of the Ultra Euro Pennzoil left for one more change at 45k miles and I sure as heck ain't wasting it. It may not be the new standard, but I don't have a worry in the world that is it damaging my engine...
I've had cars, trucks, ATV's, Harley's, Mowers, Tractors, Generators, Diesels and Gassers, Some are pushing 15 yrs old and worked every day, and cannot say I've ever had any oil related issues pertaining to engines as long as I've kept them changed and used the proper API weight as specified in the manual....
Synthetic, conventional, Amsoil to Wal mart brand.... Something else always does these units in before oil related engine failures do, that cause me to want to get a new one or sell it to the next party....
My opinion only....
It sounds like people are accidentally putting in the wrong 5w30 and that's a problem. They must be using 5w30 designed for gas engines. AKA the cheap stuff!
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:15 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Looks like this thread saw some action while I was out driving my Jeep this weekend.

It also looks like Delvac 1 ESP already meets or will be reformulated to meet the new CK-4 standard. https://mobildelvac.com/en/engine-oi...l-delvac-1-esp

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarklaflare View Post
There's a column in the "Good Table" labeled HTHS cP @150 deg. C.
High numbers are better, I'm presuming. The Rotella T6 has a 4.0 where the Delvac 1 ESP has a 3.8, so point to the Rotella T6 there. I don't understand how that number is derived, so I can't comment on whether a 0.2 difference will show a noticeable difference in the engine at 10K mile change intervals over the long term (200K miles or more). It might if you tow near max a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadg2 View Post
Your theory is to why FCA is changing to 5w40 for cost savings doesn't explain why they are taking new unsold 3.0L diesels off the lot and dumping the new 5w30 and putting in 5w40 before they are sold. Why not just run the 5w30 for the first initial break in period & change to 5w40 going forward after that? What you are thinking seems logical, but why dump the correct 5w30 when they know it's the correct 5w30?
I don't know. That change has the marks of a contractual issue between FCA and their oil supplier, though. It could have also been guidance from their legal department to hedge against potential future claims based on perceived issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tasjeep View Post
Whilst I agree that Moly is a very good anti Wear additive, it is not the only one in oils. Boron is also AW and the Delvac has nearly twice as much as the Rotella. Other than that both oils have similar amounts of Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorous and Zinc.
Where are you seeing these numbers? The chart I linked to in the original post shows boron being similar in both and calcium about 25% less in the Delvac 1 ESP.

While I agree that moly isn't the only way to protect the engine, I've been accused of believing in magic because I couldn't point to a specific ingredient that might allow Delvac 1 ESP to protect the engine as well as Rotella T6. I'd love to able to point to some hard data to put my own mind at rest and lay to rest some of the ridicule for not having said data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stbentoak View Post
Synthetic, conventional, Amsoil to Wal mart brand.... Something else always does these units in before oil related engine failures do, that cause me to want to get a new one or sell it to the next party....
My opinion only....
I drive the Jeep relatively few miles at almost 10K miles per year with only light to moderate engine loads and virtually all highway miles with about 20% of the engine hours off-road (probably less than 1% by miles). For me, the differences between oils are likely going to be trivial for the engine, even at 20 or more years.

What's unclear is which oil is better for the emissions equipment. The sulphated ash is the same for both at 1%, so both will probably clog the DPF at a similar rate. The Delvac 1 ESP has lower metal additives, so it *should* be better for the emissions system, but probably more about the SCR than the DPF. My conjecture (logic) is that some magic (lower metal additives) will prevent a $3,000 emissions system repair every 5 to 10 years while not noticeably harming the engine at 20+ years (which would be a $30,000 repair). Point for Delvac 1 ESP.

It's probably moot, however, because I'll likely put on a GDE tune when the warranty runs out and I'm not likely to get any more PCM flashes at the dealer. Point to those who say to use the low bid oil that meets the newest spec and is backwards compatible.

I've attached the official spec sheet for the Rotella T6. Rotella T6 took a bit of following breadcrumbs to find. They don't make it obvious like the Delvac 1 ESP. The Delvac 1 ESP spec sheet is at Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 * .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 specification sheet - 20160926.pdf (125.7 KB, 18 views)
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2016, 03:39 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Where are you seeing these numbers? The chart I linked to in the original post shows boron being similar in both and calcium about 25% less in the Delvac 1 ESP.

While I agree that moly isn't the only way to protect the engine, I've been accused of believing in magic because I couldn't point to a specific ingredient that might allow Delvac 1 ESP to protect the engine as well as Rotella T6. I'd love to able to point to some hard data to put my own mind at rest and lay to rest some of the ridicule for not having said data.


I got the info from VOA's. These are on Bob the Oil Guys Forum
These show Delvac has Boron of 98ppm and Calcium of 1258ppm
Compared to Rotella Boron 60ppm and Calcium 833ppm.


Trevor
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2016, 04:21 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by tasjeep View Post
Where are you seeing these numbers? The chart I linked to in the original post shows boron being similar in both and calcium about 25% less in the Delvac 1 ESP.

While I agree that moly isn't the only way to protect the engine, I've been accused of believing in magic because I couldn't point to a specific ingredient that might allow Delvac 1 ESP to protect the engine as well as Rotella T6. I'd love to able to point to some hard data to put my own mind at rest and lay to rest some of the ridicule for not having said data.


I got the info from VOA's. These are on Bob the Oil Guys Forum
These show Delvac has Boron of 98ppm and Calcium of 1258ppm
Compared to Rotella Boron 60ppm and Calcium 833ppm.


Trevor
Hi Trevor,

Sounds as though you have done some good research.

I bought my 2013 JGC from a dealer in Mildura and he says that Valvoline is what they use.
My dealer on the Sunshine coast says Mobil and another one up the coast further says Nulon.
So in your opinion, being mindful of local availability, just what should we be using in Australia.

Pete
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:23 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.T View Post
Hi Trevor,

Sounds as though you have done some good research.

I bought my 2013 JGC from a dealer in Mildura and he says that Valvoline is what they use.
My dealer on the Sunshine coast says Mobil and another one up the coast further says Nulon.
So in your opinion, being mindful of local availability, just what should we be using in Australia.

Pete
Dealers tend to use what they can get the best price on. If we are talking about the original spec for the oil there is only 1 oil in Australia that meets the required FCA spec of MS11108 and that is Mobil1 ESP 5w30.
Personally I believe any C3 5W30 oil is ok.
Valvoline have their Syn Power MST C3 5W30 and Nulon have a Full Synthetic C3 5W30.
Both oils will be ok in your engine and are easier to obtain than the Mobil1.
I have a Mobil distributor near to me and can buy from them a wholesale prices.
Now if you start talking about the revised FCA spec that calls for a CJ4 5W40 oil then we need to have a different discussion as our friends in the States are changing to Shell Rotella but this is not available in Australia, hence why I am changing to Mobil Delvac.
There are other oils available to us that meet this spec. best to have a look on the Aus Jeep Off Road Forum where there is a thread discussing the options.
In saying all this I am assuming that yours is a Diesel with the Fiat Motor as I am not sure when they changed from the Merc. Motor.

Trevor
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:51 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by akinney View Post

I drive the Jeep relatively few miles at almost 10K miles per year with only light to moderate engine loads and virtually all highway miles with about 20% of the engine hours off-road (probably less than 1% by miles). For me, the differences between oils are likely going to be trivial for the engine, even at 20 or more years.
Based on your usage, you'd be better served to stick with the lower SAPS oil, 0.8% or less. Until CK-4 flushes the 5W40 HDs out, and since you're still in warranty, I'd stick with the 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Euro L. Until something official is received for the pre-2016 MYs, MS- 11106 is still the standard.
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  #21  
Old 09-27-2016, 10:52 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarklaflare View Post
Based on your usage, you'd be better served to stick with the lower SAPS oil, 0.8% or less. Until CK-4 flushes the 5W40 HDs out, and since you're still in warranty, I'd stick with the 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Euro L. Until something official is received for the pre-2016 MYs, MS- 11106 is still the standard.
My read of CK-4 says ash and metals will remain the same as CJ-4. The changes are in the HTHS stability, oxidation stability, and aeration control. It looks like Delvac 1 ESP already meets the new standard.

I've been using Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 and will have my first 10K mile UOA done on it in the next few months. If wear levels are good, I may just stick with that since it has a much lower 0.6% ash versus 1.0% on these new standard oils.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarklaflare View Post
Until something official is received for the pre-2016 MYs, MS-11106 is still the standard.
The spec was officially changed for pre-2016 MY's, as evidenced by the updated diesel supplements that were published for the 2014's and 2015's, which match the spec for the 2016's.

The MS-11106 standard is obsolete for all three MY's.
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2016, 08:12 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

The other aspect that I neglected is the NOACK % which relates to how much oil ends up in the intercooler and intake. A lower NOACK % is associated with lower oil usage and less oil vapors going out the PCV system.

NOACK numbers are tough to come by, unfortunately. Here's what I've gleaned from various sources:

1. Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 NOACK is 5.8%
2. Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 NOACK is ?? unknown, expected to be low from good base stock
3. Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 NOACK is 12.3%

Anyone have any NOACK test numbers on the Delvac 1 ESP?
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2016, 08:57 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Evidently, it appears y'all should not be 'sweating the small stuff' about NOACK numbers. Here's an explanatory post from BITOG himself:

QUOTE

BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Noack volatility is like a lot of things concerning base oil stock, not near a problem as was in the past due to the new GF-3 specs. To base an oil's performance on base stock's performance is not always the best thing. Kinda like taking an musical band with all 20 or so musicians. singlarly, each one may be the top of the line in playing on time, and with precision. But then put a single drummer in that can't keep a beat, maybe even tends to drown out the instruments, then see how as a whole the band works to gether.

Like the band, the noack is one aspect of how well the base stock is going to hold and to base as to how well the band is going to sound based on one instrument or how well an oil is going to hold up based on one aspect of the base oil is not a true picture.

There is several stages to look at when looking at oil.

1.. Base stock's ability to..
a. hold up to heat (noack)
b. pumpability at cold temps
c. maybe flashpoint
d. operational viscosity
e. pumping viscosity
f. shear stability

2.. detergent packages...
a. how they hold up to acid resisitance
(tbn and detergent levels)

3.. Wear protection...
a. what kind of barrier additive is used
b. what levels of barrier additives(amounts)

These are just some of the things to look at, now, put it all together. If they play off key because one is higher pitched than the other(to much of one additive,not enough of the other), or off beat from the other band members(not playing well with other additives due to clash), Then you have an ok sounding band or maybe even a really sorry sounding band that only 10 beers could make them sound better(use an after market oil additive).

So back to noack, this tests oil up to 500deg for 1 hr?, your oil will not see this kind of temp for that duration therfore it like a lot of other things is taken as if the better the number the better the oil. case in point, if your oil only see's 350 deg f., but can handle 450-475 deg with no problem, will it work as well as the one that handles 500 deg? why not, it is establish that until it reaches 450 deg that's when you start with problems as 500 in the other example. So what if it doesn't last as long, what it does establish is that the base oil can resist heat longer so that does make it look like a possible good canidate for extending drain intervals, provided that the tbn oxidation levels can hold up which rely on the additive package to help the base oil to withstand.

So in my opinion, don't loose sleep on it, but like many aspects to oil, it along with other parts play a small role but put to gether, like the music band, it all will sound like sweet wonderful music when they all play together (like a properly blended oil) and that my friend is how you look at oils and determine if they are what you want, but listening to the end results being played by the band(doing oil analysis on your engine with your choice of oil) is the key to determining oil quality. This is one reason I provided an area for oil analysis to be shared so that many could see real life #'s instead of just bench #'s.

And thats the rest of the story. Goooooood day.
UNQUOTE
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