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  #25  
Old 10-08-2016, 10:55 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
Evidently, it appears y'all should not be 'sweating the small stuff' about NOACK numbers. Here's an explanatory post from BITOG himself:
For sure. NOACK needs to be balanced with other oil performance factors. No disagreement on that point. I suspect BITOG's message was directed to those using NOACK as the sole indicator of oil quality since a lower NOACK generally indicates higher quality oil base stock and vice versa.

This VM Motori 3.0L V6 turbo-diesel engine is well documented to produce a lot of oil vapors that flow out the PCV and into the intercooler, where they condense. Over time, that builds up and can cause a nasty mess and/or lower performance. Those same oil vapors and related liquid oil coat the air intake manifold, worsening the carbonization from the EGR. Yes, a catch can helps with that and there are plenty of threads about that, but a lower NOACK % would also help.

For this engine, the NOACK numbers are especially important, as they would be for any high compression, high load, turbo-charged engine.

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  #26  
Old 10-09-2016, 12:57 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

For all its lack of moly, the Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 seems to do well in these engines. Here's several UOA from the RAM 1500 Ecodiesel's using the Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40:

Oil Analysis Lab Test Results - Page 32

The TL;DR: Wear metals at 10K mile oil change intervals with this oil are lower than with the old standard Pennzoil Euro Ultra L 5W-30. In other words, it's good oil. We knew that, but now it has application specific data to back that up.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2016, 03:20 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

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Originally Posted by akinney View Post
Some people just want whatever's cheapest that meets the specs for their EcoDiesel motor oil. Personally, I'd rather spend a little more to get superior protection since I can occasionally run up against harsh conditions without any warning and I plan to keep this vehicle as long as economically feasible. Under the previous oil standard, I'd been running Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 and have been happy with how it sounds. I'm still a month out before I change that at 20K miles (10K mile interval) and get an oil analysis done on that, but others' oil analysis for that oil has been positive.



I've been digging through oil specs and tests for awhile now to get my head around why the spec change and what oil I'm going to choose.



My theory for why the spec changed (gathered from numerous forum discussions, test data, logic, and anecdotal evidence - troll food, I know) is as follows:
  1. FCA wanted a unified diesel oil spec to reduce inventory costs.
  2. Dealer techs were routinely putting in the wrong 5W-30 and causing various failures. Change the spec to 5W-40, mark the oil cap, and get less dunce action, reducing warranty claims.
  3. 5W-40 protects a little better with regards to high pressure and high shear conditions than 5W-30.



I've chosen Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 as the oil I'll be running for meeting the new spec. It is CJ-4 / ACEA E9 / Cummins CES 20081 compliant. It doesn't say FCA MS-10902, but Cummins CES 20081 and MS-10902 are interchangeable ( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...-1#Post4155373 ). The owners manual says you should use an oil that "meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4". Even though it isn't labeled MS-10902, it does *meet* the standard because of Cummins CES 20081, so there's no chance of FCA wriggling out of a warranty claim on that basis.



Besides it meeting specs, here are the other reasons I've chosen the Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 instead of the Shell Rotella T6 that everyone else seems to be so orgasmic over:
  1. Higher temperature stability.
  2. Lower pour point.
  3. Higher viscosity at full operating temperature.
  4. Initial TBN is slightly lower, but TBN has not been an issue for 10K mile oil change intervals for this engine in anyone's oil analysis.
  5. Lower metal additive levels (moly in particular) will enhance the longevity of the emissions equipment and minimize the harmful effects of EGR.
  6. Sulfated ash percentage is equal to the Shell Rotella T6.



A good chart at Rotella: The world's first ever combined hair oil, foot ointment, and salad dressing - Jeep Cherokee Forum shows these specs in an easy to compare format.



Drawbacks to Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40? It's harder to find and is about 40% more expensive than the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40. I'll spend $70 on oil each change instead of $50, which is about a $200 difference over the course of 10 years of oil changes. To me, that's negligible, especially given the added peace of mind that I've given it the best protection I can.



Besides lower cost, fanboy glee, and the slightly better initial TBN, is there any other reason to believe that Shell Rotella T6 will protect better than Mobil Delvac 1 ESP?



PS What's with all these ridiculous oil names for quality compression engine oil? Rotella? Delvac? Is there history or is someone on meth?


You talk about a new change in spec but don't link to anything saying there's a new change to spec. My printed manual obviously hasn't changed so before I decide to switch I want to make sure it's still within the warranty.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2016, 10:21 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Texan: The manual did change in early July 2016 for 2014-2016. Check your updated diesel supplement. You can get it online through your owners website or sometimes just looking it up on the internet.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:45 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

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Originally Posted by FlyingTexan View Post
You talk about a new change in spec but don't link to anything saying there's a new change to spec. My printed manual obviously hasn't changed so before I decide to switch I want to make sure it's still within the warranty.
1). The 2015 M/Y Diesel Supplement 7th Update in PDF on pages 98 and 99 announces the 5W-40 change and specs that are met by Rotella T-6.

2). If you are comfortable PMing an email address I'll send you a copy of the PDF - it's a fairly large file and Jeep makes posting a link very difficult.

3). The service manager at my dealership called Jeep to verify because his internal docs still limit him to PZL - 5W-30 Euro L for 2015 and 2104 diesels. Jeep told him to use T-6 and his internals will be updated in a few days. Further, it appears that going forward PZL 5W-30 will not be used under any circumstances in these cars.

2).
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:41 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1). The 2015 M/Y Diesel Supplement 7th Update in PDF on pages 98 and 99 announces the 5W-40 change and specs that are met by Rotella T-6.

Trying to convince the FlyingTexan is akin to beating a dead horse. Until that individual gets a hand signed letter from Sergio and a revised printed manual that says a change in oil spec WILL NOT void the warranty they will continue to use what the original printed owners manual tells them to do.
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  #31  
Old 10-11-2016, 11:49 AM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

[QUOTE=EDS_;1332920]1). The 2015 M/Y Diesel Supplement 7th Update in PDF on pages 98 and 99 announces the 5W-40 change and specs that are met by Rotella T-6.

2). If you are comfortable PMing an email address I'll send you a copy of the PDF - it's a fairly large file and Jeep makes posting a link very difficult.

3). The service manager at my dealership called Jeep to verify because his internal docs still limit him to PZL - 5W-30 Euro L for 2015 and 2104 diesels. Jeep told him to use T-6 and his internals will be updated in a few days. Further, it appears that going forward PZL 5W-30 will not be used under any circumstances in these cars.

2). AMEN! EXACTLY MY EXPERIENCE WITH MY DEALER. "USE ONLY THE T-6"
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2016, 04:00 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingTexan View Post
You talk about a new change in spec but don't link to anything saying there's a new change to spec. My printed manual obviously hasn't changed so before I decide to switch I want to make sure it's still within the warranty.
Every owners manual and diesel supplement are available here;

Jeep Owners | Download an Owners Manual 2004 - 2011 | Jeep

They are the latest revisions.
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  #33  
Old 10-14-2016, 06:10 PM
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Re: New EcoDiesel oil standard and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

For what it's worth.

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