New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions.... - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

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Old 04-05-2017, 09:49 AM
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New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

It seems like there are more and more articles where States/Governments (France, Germany, etc.) are hinting that all of these diesel vehicle makers are using "defeat" devices to get by NOx regs, one has to ask if the "regulators" perhaps drew (out of thin air) the NOx standards for diesels too high, without any input (because they didn't care and wanted to get rid of light pax diesel,) from the auto makers and whether or not if they could easily/fiscally achieve those levels?

One article that I read hinted that in VW's case for the 3.0L TDI's in the Touareg, they could meet the NOx standard by dumping a bunch of DEF into the exhaust, but then you'd only get around 3k miles per tank of DEF, instead of the marketing department ask for 10,000 miles, or one OCI, (oil change interval.) So they went back and adjusted the DEF levels and ECU to get by the test as the EPA designed, and we got we know it as now.

Not sure how new this suit is, the article is less than 24 hours old. Essentially claiming the same thing as what VW was accused/found guilty of, and seeks class status. Citing the added expense of the diesel option, it sounds like they are seeking compensation a la VW.

https://www.theet.com/statejournal/f...8ad073297.html

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Old 04-05-2017, 01:50 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

I fully expect that FCA will incur more lawsuits like this however there can only be one class action lawsuit. And what happens when EPA and FCA come to terms? I am guessing FCA will buy off those suing the company some compensation regardless if they are innocent or not.
Guilty until proven innocent when comes to lawsuits even though I yet to see any evidence produced by EPA.
I contend that EPA and FCA are in negotiations for a settlement of acceptable pollution levels.
What I find interesting is that Bosch is almost across the board providing the solutions to diesel pollution output.
Who is next Merc, BMW, etc.

The European Union has made it clear they want diesels passenger vehicles gone as soon as possible by implementation of new EU 5 and 6 standards which since the VW issue they have gone from their form of EPA static testing to portable testing machines.

Here is what I find odd. The EU testing by various countries EPA never caught the VW cheating. New regulations implemented the portable testing and more. Now they are doing catch up.

European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - EU legislation on passenger car type approval and emissions standards

I am a diesel guy by nature been running diesels of one kind of another farming and trucks I owned but what really bothers me is the EPA doing either rectal extraction or following whatever CARB decides rather than what is first doable and 2nd feasible.

I am a believer in vehicles putting out the smallest amount of pollution possible but what is that standard? As far as I know EPA has never gathered experts from academia, industry, government and collectively decided what makes sense...
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:35 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Oh my!

PLEASE, let us not get ANYONE from academia involved !!!

They are as bad as lawyers these days .
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Old 04-05-2017, 04:28 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Yes. Let's not confuse the issue with rigorous data, logical analysis, and the greatest legal system in history. Imperfect? Of course. Like everything, including our/my opinions.


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Old 04-05-2017, 05:27 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

I find the entire thing interesting to read. I am confused is it the EPA doing the "rectal extraction" or the manufacture doing the "rectal extraction" after having been caught?

what is the difference between "ecodiesel" and "diesel"?
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:00 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Well, guess I've got to settle for the Hemi then.


Time to change my order....
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Old 04-05-2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

While it prob won't happen, wouldn't it be great to drive this vehicle for 4 years and get it bought back !
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:56 PM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILA View Post
I find the entire thing interesting to read. I am confused is it the EPA doing the "rectal extraction" or the manufacture doing the "rectal extraction" after having been caught?

what is the difference between "ecodiesel" and "diesel"?
Pretty sure ecodiesel is an FCA copyright likes Ford's ecoboost.
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:03 AM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

From the marketing angle, it appears that anything with "Eco" in it these days has a turbocharger fitted to it !
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILA View Post
I find the entire thing interesting to read. I am confused is it the EPA doing the "rectal extraction" or the manufacture doing the "rectal extraction" after having been caught?

what is the difference between "ecodiesel" and "diesel"?
Since the EPA declared CO2 a "harmful gas", even though it is essential to life on earth (flora love it) eliminating CO2 becomes an ecology or "eco" endeavor. Hence the effort to increase the fuel mileage of vehicles to reduce CO2/mile.
Turbo does that. Diesel inherently produces less CO2/mile so using diesel is "ECO". Witness Europe's push in that direction. The downside of diesel is soot and NOx, which is CARB's beef, and why they are calling the shots regarding diesel acceptance. FCA really has to negotiate with CARB to get our diesel's accepted. The EPA will go along.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:23 AM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

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Originally Posted by NorthstarSRX View Post
Since the EPA declared CO2 a "harmful gas", even though it is essential to life on earth (flora love it) eliminating CO2 becomes an ecology or "eco" endeavor. Hence the effort to increase the fuel mileage of vehicles to reduce CO2/mile.
Turbo does that. Diesel inherently produces less CO2/mile so using diesel is "ECO". Witness Europe's push in that direction. The downside of diesel is soot and NOx, which is CARB's beef, and why they are calling the shots regarding diesel acceptance. FCA really has to negotiate with CARB to get our diesel's accepted. The EPA will go along.
Understanding CO2 is extremely important. CO2 is an extremely vital element to our planet - but in balance. Too much CO2 in our atmosphere (actual proven fact is we are now at an average of 400 PPM) causes major changes in weather patterns (mega droughts, flooding, wildfires, increase in occurrence of devastating storms (hurricanes / typhoons / tornadoes), spread of bacteria, viruses, and diseases that were held in check by more temperate. As our average temp increases it causes significant increase in other greenhouse gas with wildfires and melting of permafrost which then releases millions of tons more of CO2 and worse CH4 (methane) which is 30x worse of a greenhouse gas than CO2. A lot of people also do not know but H20 is a greenhouse gas / liquid as well and the hotter our planet gets the more evaporation is caused.

The way I think of our planet as a biological entity is we humans are part of the ecosystem but with our significant release of greenhouse gasses are giving our planet a deadly fever. And analogous to us when we get a fever we are sick. Thus we are making our planet sicker and it will get to a point where the host (whether human or our sole planet maybe changed forever or worse).
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:37 AM
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Re: New lawsuit says FCA used defeat s/w to beat emissions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaje View Post
Understanding CO2 is extremely important. CO2 is an extremely vital element to our planet - but in balance. Too much CO2 in our atmosphere (actual proven fact is we are now at an average of 400 PPM) causes major changes in weather patterns (mega droughts, flooding, wildfires, increase in occurrence of devastating storms (hurricanes / typhoons / tornadoes), spread of bacteria, viruses, and diseases that were held in check by more temperate. As our average temp increases it causes significant increase in other greenhouse gas with wildfires and melting of permafrost which then releases millions of tons more of CO2 and worse CH4 (methane) which is 30x worse of a greenhouse gas than CO2. A lot of people also do not know but H20 is a greenhouse gas / liquid as well and the hotter our planet gets the more evaporation is caused.

The way I think of our planet as a biological entity is we humans are part of the ecosystem but with our significant release of greenhouse gasses are giving our planet a deadly fever. And analogous to us when we get a fever we are sick. Thus we are making our planet sicker and it will get to a point where the host (whether human or our sole planet maybe changed forever or worse).
This is a FACT.... it may not be with this generation or the next or even the next....BUT eventually this thing will tip past a point of "No return" and we will spend massive mounts of money and effort just to try to salvage what's left... but all of our good intentions at that time won't matter, and then its just a matter of time after that.....
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