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New TSB 009-006-15

25K views 104 replies 38 participants last post by  dom42 
#1 ·

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#3 ·
Almost exactly the conditions I've experienced in my 2014 at times...although it's becoming less frequent now at 15k miles than in the first 10k miles. Always thought it was the transmission....

The only condition that fails for me is that I've found it has nothing to do with a "cold soak" start....mine has shuddered after being at normal operating temps...

Frankly, not sure I want them to rip apart my engine given how well it runs most of the time (99+%) without the shudder...and it's a leased vehicle with two more years to go.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'd like to know when they started using these new cylinder heads as it says it only applies to MY 14 EcoDiesels.

More efficient combustion means less carbon, so a quality fuel additive like Stanadyne to help protect the injectors as well as boost the cetane (Amsoil has a great cetane booster, too) only helps the issue of carbon build up. Also, the GDE tune that disables the EGR carbon related issues would only help this situation, as well.
 
#6 ·
I think I've noticed this after the engine has been cold, I reverse, accelerate slowly away and then accelerate harder a few seconds later.

Feels like the tranny skips at that moment I accelerate harder. Does this sound like a symptom or just the way I'm driving it?

I've had the transmission update as well.

If I do have the problem, what happens if I don't fix it? Like said before, 99% of the time it's fine.
 
#7 ·
Mine happens on a daily basis, sometimes it feels like the engine is going to outright stall at idle.

I'm not sure about the extensive repair either, but anything is better than what I have now. I cannot use it how it was meant to be driven, which makes it a waste of money. I could have purchased something a lot less expensive to just drive around town in. This is my only tow vehicle, which it can't do now. This was great for long trips, not anymore.

I hope this solves my issues, parts are still 7-10 days out.
 
#8 ·
Looks like we need to drive it like we stole it! The VM is a dirty engine for a modern diesel (according to GDE), and with poor exhaust valve stem design coupled with light on the throttle driving style things build up.

This is not great news, makes me really think about getting an 8yr 120k mile extended warranty!
 
#10 ·
I have a lot of experience driving all types of diesels and they all have some things in common. They like hot weather and they do well being driven hard. Never baby a diesel it will not treat you well over the long run.
Remember diesels are torque engines
Meant to be pulling or
Pushing hard on something.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
 
#14 ·
I hope it all goes well for you. I always get nervous when other people have to work on my vehicles.
 
#16 ·
Question is, should those that haven't been really having symptoms get this done? Just lie to the dealership and say you've been having problems?

I don't know if replacing the heads right now will save future problems. For example, am I 100% going to have a problem down the road when the truck gets older? Or maybe and we just don't know?
 
#17 ·
I think it's too soon at this point to know if it'll affect all engines. There are a few influencing factors, driving style to name the big one.

I wouldn't jump to have this done just yet. I'd wait it out to closer to the end of the warranty period and we'll have a much better picture when more ecodiesels rack up the miles.
 
#18 ·
Been having this same issue as well. I had to find this TSB and give it to my dealer so they would start the repair. I took the Jeep in yesterday and apparently the parts are on back order (what a shock). I called CCC and they are putting everything on expedite but I am still looking at 5-7 business days best case for them to arrive and then I bet it will be another 2-3 days to complete the repair. I don't have a lot of confidence that in the repair team over there either since it took 3 trips to get the Cat replaced and they put the wrong oil in the engine twice. I think I may need to throw in the towel, get the dealer to take this thing off my hands and move on. This is the 12th trip to the service department in 18 months and I am not even at 20k. I am just so done with this thing.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I got the cat replaced a few weeks ago and that seemed to fix the mil light issue so far but the shudder still occurs every now and then. I saw this bulletin and it describes exactly when it happens except have not noticed it on warm up. Like some others I am hesitant to have such major work done? Called dealer and waiting to hear back on parts.
 
#20 ·
Mine just started surgery today. Should be out by Thursday afternoon. Rumor on some other sites is that the replacement cylinder heads being put in have a slightly different design that supposedly prevents soot build up in the valves which supposedly is the problem. However, I also had the dealer put the wrong low ash motor oil in the first 2 oil changes, so perhaps I was destined to have this issue regardless. I also heard one of the recent software updates changed some of the mechanics to try and prevent soot build up. Perhaps that may help some people. I imagine working the engine hard and hot with towing and such may help keep the build up from happening too.

But if Chrysler is for once owning up to an issue that can't be solved via software updates, I figured I might as well get it replaced before they change their mind or issue a recall that creates a huge run on parts like the Cat issue did. Plus it's no money out of my pocket, so let them deal with it now while its still under factory warranty is my view.
 
#22 ·
I have been very satisfied with the fix thus far (now about 400 miles), have not experienced any of the previous issues. My millage has come back to about 23 in town, it was down to about 19. I will be making my first tow this weekend with the fix, I hope it all stays together.
 
#23 ·
Update: I went over to the dealership on Friday to "discuss" my recent issues with the Jeep and this repair process. They have had my vehicle now for 2 weeks and work has stalled. The dealer does not have the tools to complete the cylinder head replacement on hand so they had to order them from Chrysler and wait for them to arrive.

The service rep I have been working with, who seems to be trying to do his best to help me, took me out to the back to show me what's going on. The engine was completely torn apart and the cylinder heads were exposed. Inside each hole was 2-3 mm of caked on carbon dust. There was no doubt that they needed replacement and that it was causing the issue. I took two photos in case anyone wants to see what the engine tear down looks like. It was kind of hard to get a good photo of the carbon build up though.

I am guessing that at some point there will be a lot more of these things going in for this repair job. Chrysler has jerryrigged this Italian engine with so much emissions crap it wasn't designed for, its bound to have issues long term. At this point, I am done with this engine and gunning for a buyback. It was clear that the service techs at the dealership have no idea how to tear the Jeep down to do the head replacement, much less put it back together properly without further issue. I just have no confidence that it will work properly after this is complete. Maybe I am wrong, but this repair just seems inevitable on all the diesels given the emissions system.
 

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#24 ·
I am guessing that at some point there will be a lot more of these things going in for this repair job. Chrysler has jerryrigged this Italian engine with so much emissions crap it wasn't designed for, its bound to have issues long term. At this point, I am done with this engine and gunning for a buyback. It was clear that the service techs at the dealership have no idea how to tear the Jeep down to do the head replacement, much less put it back together properly without further issue. I just have no confidence that it will work properly after this is complete. Maybe I am wrong, but this repair just seems inevitable on all the diesels given the emissions system.
You would think you'd just be able to enjoy your "premium" upgrade of a diesel powertrain for several hundred thousand miles without repair. Unfortunately, EGR just doesn't play nice. Even with the new exhaust valve design, everything else will get crude up after 60k-100k depending on how you drive it. It will eventually require a teardown and clean out to get it back and running efficiently again.

An ecodiesel (or most modern diesel) owner's best bet is to disable the EGR from day one. AND, running a catch can helps keep the buildup down a bit too.
 
#32 ·
Update: Day 18 in the shop. The engine repairs are supposedly complete. However when reinstalling the catalytic converter, they somehow broke a flange off of it. So now I have to get a new Cat (my second) which is, unfortunately, backordered. :motx: All I can do is laugh at this point or else I may rip my hair out.
 
#35 ·
I was hoping to hear updates from MyWay and EagleScout but after waiting about 3 weeks the dealer got the parts in for the cylinder head replacement. I will drop off on Monday and they say it should take about a week. I have not had any mil lights since the cat replacement but the shudder or fishbites occur now and then a couple times a week at the usual moments so I am going ahead with this fix but I am nervous since the dealer said this was their first one. I will post again when I get it back and drive a few miles. I really hope this solves the problem as I like the diesel GC and want to keep it for a few years.
 
#36 ·
Sorry for the delay in posting, but...

Update Day 37: Jeep is still in the shop. I learned that the CAT that the dealer broke reassembling the engine wasn't the same one they replaced fixing the P20EE code. Its apparently a second CAT that is connected directly to the Turbocharger. Who knew it had two? Anyway, no one at FCA or the dealer seems to be in a hurry to get me a new one now that I am outside the statue of limitations for Lemon Law, so it remains sitting at the dealer. Still no ETA on a new one. Still no idea if the fix will work, or if the dealer screwed things up worse. All of my threats and complaints fall on deaf ears. I am literally pulling my hair out. I don't know what else to do.
 
#37 ·
Probably the best thing to do at this point is have it put on a flatbed and taken to a different dealer as these clowns seem to be incompetent monkeys on this engine. The fact they didn't have the tools was a huge red flag...they might not even have a real diesel tech.
 
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