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  #13  
Old 02-22-2014, 09:55 AM
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Re: Performance figures- magnaflow exhaust

Were these runs conducted on the same stretch of highway before/after? Were temperatures similar? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you, but surprised to see the results after reading through your other thread. Had a chance to compare fuel mileage before/after?
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:04 AM
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Re: Performance figures- magnaflow exhaust

MMMM hum. I applaud Mush for his efforts here and its people like him that make forums great but if you have some experience with these things you know that the possibilities are not good on more power.

The apps often have a hard time deciding when you started moving due to GPS error which itself is a problem and can add up to more error than a lot of people would think. Then you have the fact that the runs were done on different days with different fuel ( a huge issue with diesels and the various winter blends) on a car which is more broke in during one run than the other and on and on.

CAFE and the HP wars have made it so that there is somewhere between very little and no HP left to snag with an efficiency mod like cans on latest gen cars. It hit the performance cars first because of the added emphasis on performance but its everywhere now. Consider Corvettes for an example. On C5 which came out in 97 you could get real power with a new set of cans. It proved out on the dyno and the track. By the time C6 hit the road in the latter half of 04 for the 05 MY no power could be had. Every new set of cans that hit claimed the usual 10 to 15, sometimes 20 hp but one after another failed to prove it out. Some of the lower end offerings like the Magnaflow would prove out a loss. As each one hit however users would report improved acceleration, more scratch, etc. Buttometers can be notoriously inaccurate and more sound volume is invariably associated with more power. How does the aftermarket get away with that? Easy, they need only one dyno run showing more power and they can now make the claim and dynos are easily manipulated. This holds up because the industry is worth a lot of money and money always make the rules.

It isn't just power. Drone is usually reported as being minimal or non existent at first. Then someone will report how the same system has "just a smidge" but it can be easily driven around. Pretty soon owners are reporting that the drone is actually substantial but can be driven around. Fast forward 6 months and the guy who first bought the system and reported minimal drone is selling it because he cant stand the drone anymore. It never fails.

The same thing is now occurring on all cars just a little later. CAFE is extremely stringent and OEMs cannot afford to give up the free power we used to go after with efficency mods. The downstream exhaust system will not represent any significant restriction to the upstream system any more on any car. You might think this is hard but its not. Due to the horrible placement of the cats (as close as possible) to meet light off standards the exhaust already has a massive impediment upstream and the downstream portion only needs to flow the already stifled exhaust. On the diesels now you invariably have a turbo which goes a long long way toward muffling the sound volume on its own.

Of course people look at these things and think that the pretty new cans have to be better than the ugly stuff under the car but the reality is not quite there. The OEM manufacturer need to make it good enough to not represent any significant restriction to the upstream exhaust but then their next criteria is cost. It doesn't need to be pretty because they sell cars, not exhausts, and they know most owners will never see what the car looks like underneath. On the other hand it goes more than skin deep. As an example on the M3 one of the pipes is crushed and it looks like it would be an impediment to flow but thanks to owners who given time will find truth it turned out that the stock piece actually flowed better and had more laminar flow than a much prettier mandrel bent piece used to replace it. It would later be found out the the piece was hydraformed. Which brings me to another truth in that OEM exhausts are now much more sophisticated than you might think looking at them. A lot of time and money is spent on them in design and development because CAFE is of paramount importance, they have to perform.

To get back to the beginning what do I know? Nothing. I'm only a pathetic old man who has been wrong many times. It may be that this particular set of cans does make some power. It would be very little but it is possible. Experience tells me however that any expectation of significant and measurable performance/power increase should be taken with one or more grains of salt.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mazster43 View Post
What size are the exhaust tips? It doesn't look like there is much clearance to the rear fascia cut outs. Looks really good and looking forward to hearing your sound clip.
4.5" tips. Plenty of clearance. I could have them hang lower but I wanted them tucked up as high as I could get to keep as much departure angle as possible. I left about a half inch clearance from the fascia.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Those performance apps can be wildly inaccurate. It would have been better to see a video of the dash. The first run was 9 sec and I'm pretty sure that a bone stock GC 3.0 is 8 sec or less. Also, the 0-10 time shows a 0.5 sec improvement. That same time spread is maintained through the run with an additional 0.4 sec improvement. The original 0.5 sec is probably all error.
A bone stock GC may very well run a 8.0, but mine isn't bone stock. It has 33" tires on it, so a 9 second 0-60 is a realistic expectation. I know apps aren't the most accurate things in the world, but it's all I had. That is why i ran 10 consecutive runs in a row and then averaged all of them. I didn't really think of filming the dash. Mine would have to be adjusted any way because my speedo is no longer accurate. It's off by about 5mph at 60.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by muzhik View Post
Were these runs conducted on the same stretch of highway before/after? Were temperatures similar? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you, but surprised to see the results after reading through your other thread. Had a chance to compare fuel mileage before/after?
Exact same stretch of highway. I wanted to make sure I did that to help negate elevation differences. I made both runs at night. There was a ten degree difference in outside temps, with the first runs being the coolest and the post install runs being the warmer. If I could have replicated exact temps I would have, but after checking the forecast, I knew it was only gonna get worse the longer I waited. I have nothing to prove by showing better numbers. In fact, I didn't expect a noticeable performance increase. The main reason I bought the exhaust was for sound, which didn't happen at all. I hope someone else decides to buy this exhaust and does similar tests. I can't explain the better numbers. It's the exact same app and same calibration. I even made sure to run with same fuel levels. Numbers are just numbers. All I know is that after a couple days, I could easily tell a difference in driving around town, especially when accelerating from dead stops. I'm not talking about full acceleration either...just normal everyday driving habits. As for fuel economy, I didn't test it. Unfortunately, I'll never know that because I've already swapped tires again.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MuSh View Post
Exact same stretch of highway. I wanted to make sure I did that to help negate elevation differences. I made both runs at night. There was a ten degree difference in outside temps, with the first runs being the coolest and the post install runs being the warmer. If I could have replicated exact temps I would have, but after checking the forecast, I knew it was only gonna get worse the longer I waited. I have nothing to prove by showing better numbers. In fact, I didn't expect a noticeable performance increase. The main reason I bought the exhaust was for sound, which didn't happen at all. I hope someone else decides to buy this exhaust and does similar tests. I can't explain the better numbers. It's the exact same app and same calibration. I even made sure to run with same fuel levels. Numbers are just numbers. All I know is that after a couple days, I could easily tell a difference in driving around town, especially when accelerating from dead stops. I'm not talking about full acceleration either...just normal everyday driving habits. As for fuel economy, I didn't test it. Unfortunately, I'll never know that because I've already swapped tires again.
What App did you use to track your info?
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:05 PM
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Dynolicious. I've had it for years. No complaints over all these years. Back when I had my Mini Cooper, I used it to compare with dyno numbers and it's surprising close as long as you make sure it's securely mounted during testing.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:24 AM
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Re: Performance figures- magnaflow exhaust

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuSh View Post
Exact same stretch of highway. I wanted to make sure I did that to help negate elevation differences. I made both runs at night. There was a ten degree difference in outside temps, with the first runs being the coolest and the post install runs being the warmer. If I could have replicated exact temps I would have, but after checking the forecast, I knew it was only gonna get worse the longer I waited. I have nothing to prove by showing better numbers. In fact, I didn't expect a noticeable performance increase. The main reason I bought the exhaust was for sound, which didn't happen at all. I hope someone else decides to buy this exhaust and does similar tests. I can't explain the better numbers. It's the exact same app and same calibration. I even made sure to run with same fuel levels. Numbers are just numbers. All I know is that after a couple days, I could easily tell a difference in driving around town, especially when accelerating from dead stops. I'm not talking about full acceleration either...just normal everyday driving habits. As for fuel economy, I didn't test it. Unfortunately, I'll never know that because I've already swapped tires again.
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you eliminated as many variables as you could. If anything, I would expect the performance to be slightly worse being 10 degrees warmer the second round (not accounting for potential wheel slip affecting your times on the first round from colder/harder tires). Colder/denser air can make a difference. The only things that may explain it are (1) the exhaust truly does make a difference or (as previously mentioned) (2) different fuel blend (3) engine a little more broken in and "loosening up."

Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to keep the forum updated and answer questions.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MuSh View Post
Dynolicious. I've had it for years. No complaints over all these years. Back when I had my Mini Cooper, I used it to compare with dyno numbers and it's surprising close as long as you make sure it's securely mounted during testing.
Thanks in gonna look it up.. Quite the name they picked out lol
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:40 AM
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Same here. Thanks for the updates. If one other person verifies a performance bump, I'll be trying the Magnaflow too. I already run a Bluespark tuning box and the difference is quite noticeable. Maybe a better exhaust and free flow intake would really complement it.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by muzhik View Post
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you eliminated as many variables as you could. If anything, I would expect the performance to be slightly worse being 10 degrees warmer the second round (not accounting for potential wheel slip affecting your times on the first round from colder/harder tires). Colder/denser air can make a difference. The only things that may explain it are (1) the exhaust truly does make a difference or (as previously mentioned) (2) different fuel blend (3) engine a little more broken in and "loosening up." Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to keep the forum updated and answer questions.
My pleasure. I've heard diesels perform worse in colder temps, but I've always known turbos perform better in cooler temps, so who knows. The diesel came from the same place and only 6 days apart. Both runs were on a full tank. I topped off before going out for both trips.

I'll work on the videos next. Who knows, maybe putting them side by side will show some subtle differences in noise. I still doubt it though.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Same here. Thanks for the updates. If one other person verifies a performance bump, I'll be trying the Magnaflow too. I already run a Bluespark tuning box and the difference is quite noticeable. Maybe a better exhaust and free flow intake would really complement it.
Here is one review they had on it.. Like I said.. I don't really know. But I'm optimistic like anyone who dumps money in their car lol

Cold Air Intake System (2011-2013)

The Mopar Cold AirIntake System increases airflow by as much as 20%, boosting torque up to ten lbs., and power by nearly ten horsepower. All of this while improving fuel economy (one to two mpg depending on driving style).

Air filters are high-flow and low-restriction, offer better throttle responseand increased filtration and horsepower. Filters are made of a new dry media material which is washable and reusable.
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