Service DEF - See Dealer - Page 5 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #49  
Old 05-06-2014, 11:31 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 1033
metoo is on a distinguished road
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

I dropped by a dealership the other day to see the injector layout. It was definitely an after thought installation. One extra hole in the frame rail would have prevented the need to route anything under the rail. It's not the most robust looking connection either. I didn't follow the lines to their origins, but it seems that if you can get enough slack in them, they can be pushed toward and set in the recess next to the black frame support.

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #50  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:08 PM
5.7 My Hemi's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2006 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St. George Utah and Chicago
Posts: 312
Thanks: 102
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 1523
5.7 My Hemi is on a distinguished road
Garage
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by metoo View Post
I dropped by a dealership the other day to see the injector layout. It was definitely an after thought installation. One extra hole in the frame rail would have prevented the need to route anything under the rail. It's not the most robust looking connection either. I didn't follow the lines to their origins, but it seems that if you can get enough slack in them, they can be pushed toward and set in the recess next to the black frame support.

Like I said once before. The DEF placement could have been designed better by an "alley mechanic". You would think they know that this vehicle might go off road or into some deep snow at some point in time. After all is said and done, don't hold your breath waiting on Jeep to come up with a change free of charge for you. They will only do that if someone gets hurt due to it and maybe not then.

If only a third party company would design something.
__________________
Desert Hills Of St. George, Utah


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:04 PM
GCOverland's Avatar
Jeep Addict
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,508
Thanks: 102
Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 3993
GCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

If Chrysler/Jeep are smart, they fix this issue when switching from MY14 to 15. I would assume they are aware of the many repairs caused by this pi**poor design and would want to avoid any further trouble by taking care of it.

Sometimes, I can only shake my head. So much planning and testing goes into such a vehicle and this was the best they could do??
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GCOverland For This Useful Post:
  #52  
Old 05-06-2014, 04:58 PM
Rumline's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 277
Thanks: 73
Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 2245
Rumline has a reputation beyond reputeRumline has a reputation beyond reputeRumline has a reputation beyond reputeRumline has a reputation beyond reputeRumline has a reputation beyond reputeRumline has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Sadly, I think these kinds of poor design / last-minute-corner-cutting issues are common across all industries. I have seen it at every company I've worked for or interfaced with. The guy who approved the crappy design probably got promoted, and the guy who fought to get it done properly got re-assigned to the basement and his stapler stolen.
__________________

2014 Overland Ecodiesel 4x4 - Adv. Tech - ORA2

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rumline For This Useful Post:
  #53  
Old 05-07-2014, 12:34 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2008 4.7L WK
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: southeast Michigan
Posts: 91
Thanks: 115
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 2027
stratoblaster is on a distinguished road
Service DEF - See Dealer

Totally agree with the last four posts. It's a complete deal breaker for me. Fuel efficiency was one primary driver in thinking of replacing my '08 WK 4.7L with this for example. But no amount of fuel cost savings can make up for worrying about getting stranded while off-roading, or just going through deep snow or a big puddle. Or wasted time waiting for a dealer to get the part and replace it. The overall design logic of shortly disabling the vehicle because the injector broke off is like purposely shooting yourself in the head because you accidentally shot yourself in the foot. That probably sounds horrible but it seemed to fit... Also no way in hell would I drop ~40k on a vehicle knowing I would need to screw around with wire routing, adding protection, etc. just to reduce such a glaring vulnerability. If someone comes up with a protection/re-routing mod, maybe it could be called the "anti-suicide mod?" Come on Jeep this is ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-07-2014, 12:39 PM
GCOverland's Avatar
Jeep Addict
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,508
Thanks: 102
Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 3993
GCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoblaster View Post
Totally agree with the last four posts. It's a complete deal breaker for me. Fuel efficiency was one primary driver in thinking of replacing my '08 WK 4.7L with this for example. But no amount of fuel cost savings can make up for worrying about getting stranded while off-roading, or just going through deep snow or a big puddle. Or wasted time waiting for a dealer to get the part and replace it. The overall design logic of shortly disabling the vehicle because the injector broke off is like purposely shooting yourself in the head because you accidentally shot yourself in the foot. That probably sounds horrible but it seemed to fit... Also no way in hell would I drop ~40k on a vehicle knowing I would need to screw around with wire routing, adding protection, etc. just to reduce such a glaring vulnerability. If someone comes up with a protection/re-routing mod, maybe it could be called the "anti-suicide mod?" Come on Jeep this is ridiculous.
I totally agree.

This design-issue is one of the reasons why I'm now leaning more and more towards the HEMI once I place my Summit-order. Considering the miles I put on the Jeep, cost is almost a wash (the HEMI might be around $20/month more to operate - but at a monthly lease of $750, does that really matter?).

As it stands right now, I'd rather spend a few bucks more on fuel than worrying about injectors that can break off, being scared about limp-modes due to DPF, DEF-levels I have to monitor, >$150 oil-services (and to make it worse, potentially even more of those on the Diesel than on the HEMI) and having to let the engine idle for a certain amount of time before I shut it off. Heck, some of our gas-station don't carry Diesel in the first place.

I'm a car-enthusiast so I could deal with this stuff if I had to - but I'm planning on handing the car over to my mum after a year - and if there is something she doesn't need is being stranded due to a flimsy DEF-injector.

I really enjoyed test-driving the Diesel - but I think the time is (not yet) right for me. Although I'd save $50 on fuel/month, $30 of this advantage is already eaten up by higher maintenance-expenses ($15) and a higher lease-rate ($15).

So I'm probably going to pay $20 more for the "simple" solution. I think it's going to be worth it..after all, the V8-power has a value, too, right?
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-07-2014, 02:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 1033
metoo is on a distinguished road
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCOverland View Post
....and having to let the engine idle for a certain amount of time before I shut it off.
Is that in the manual somewhere or is that an assumption due to the fact there is a turbo? Most vehicles with factory turbo don't need to do that. Plus, unnecessary idling in a diesel is not the best practice, from what I understand.

As for your other reasons for steering clear of the diesel, I hear ya. I'm a bit on the fence myself. All the issues with the environmental gear and the expensive oil changes is deterring to say the least.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-07-2014, 04:00 PM
GunninIt's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: California
Posts: 197
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 1722
GunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

You guys really don't know what you're talking about with regard to "expensive oil changes."

You're talking about a vehicle that is intended to go 10,000 miles (I know, there's some issues with SOME vehicles). This is in contrast to the 3,000-5,000 that folks with the V6 or Hemi are likely doing. Ok, let's add synthetic oil to the mix and you're likely coming pretty darn close. I've also never met a dealership that doesn't offer monthly specials on service. You can likely expect that "expensive oil change" to be around $99.00. So, let's break that down by month - $8.25. For 12 months of driving. Ok, so let's say you drive a little more - double even. That's still $16.50. You just bought a $50,000 car and are complaining about an "expensive oil change?"

Really, if you want expensive, try driving an Audi or VW V8 around for a while. My average service costs every 3,000-5,000 miles were far higher.

How about getting a Porsche or Masserati and dealing with their annual service costs.

Ok, ok. Am I being far fetched? Maybe. The point, really, is that the service costs on these diesels aren't that extravagant. Stop using that as a deciding point. It's not a competition. Would I choose my diesel over someone's Hemi or the Pentastar? Yes. But that's my choice. Go make your own based on informed decision making, based on emotion, or just based on the fact that you think it's cool.
__________________
2014 GC Limited CRD Bright White/Black LuxII ORAII RA4



The 3.6 in my JKUR is like 6 drunk hamsters banging on bongos. -dugedug
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GunninIt For This Useful Post:
  #57  
Old 05-07-2014, 04:09 PM
GCOverland's Avatar
Jeep Addict
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,508
Thanks: 102
Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 3993
GCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by metoo View Post
Is that in the manual somewhere or is that an assumption due to the fact there is a turbo? Most vehicles with factory turbo don't need to do that. Plus, unnecessary idling in a diesel is not the best practice, from what I understand.
Yesterday, I took the time to fly over the Diesel Supplement which can be downloaded here:

Jeep Owners | Download an Owners Manual 2004 - 2011 | Jeep

Idling-times are listed on page 41.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metoo View Post
As for your other reasons for steering clear of the diesel, I hear ya. I'm a bit on the fence myself. All the issues with the environmental gear and the expensive oil changes is deterring to say the least.
Absolutely. It is a very though call unless you are the perfect candidate for the Diesel (constantly towing heavy loads, driving +20k miles/year etc.).

I stopped counting how often I already switched between the two in my mind. When I was done reading the Diesel Supplement, I came to the conclusion that the hassle is not worth saving a few bucks a month. At least that's how it stands today..
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-07-2014, 04:44 PM
GCOverland's Avatar
Jeep Addict
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,508
Thanks: 102
Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 3993
GCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunninIt View Post
You're talking about a vehicle that is intended to go 10,000 miles (I know, there's some issues with SOME vehicles). This is in contrast to the 3,000-5,000 that folks with the V6 or Hemi are likely doing.
I highly doubt that the majority of HEMI-owners are performing more frequent oil-changes than the Diesel-owners. And even at the same frequency, the oil-change on the HEMI will be cheaper. That's just how it is.

Some people pick the Diesel because they enjoy the unique way it drives. After my test-drive, I can totally understand why. However, it is not as simple as that if you also keep an eye on the economical factor - at least not in the US.

Frankly, I enjoy driving either the HEMI or the Diesel - and that's why the ecomonics and "issue-factor" comes into play.

I spent two decades of my life in Germany. Over there, the HEMI is 6K Euros more than the Diesel. In addition, Diesel fuel is cheaper than regular/premium gas. Opting for the Diesel is a no-brainer.

The circumstances in the US, however, are quite different. Diesel is the most expensive fuel in my area and, as we all know, the Diesel engine is more expensive than the HEMI.

This is why you can't simply compare fuel expenses between these two engines - you need to take a look at the whole picture - and a premium on the engine and maintenance cost is just part of it - especially if you enjoy driving either one of these engines.

For me, the difference shrinks to $20/month. This only applies to me and can be more or less for others. So in my case, it boils down to saving a few bucks a month and going with the Diesel and its - in comparison to the HEMI - more complicated operation or spending a little more on the HEMI and having less to care about. Considering the small difference, the HEMI certainly is an option.

"Just pick what you like" sounds fair enough - but in this case, it isn't easy. At least not for me and I wouldn't be surprised if others feel the same.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-07-2014, 05:52 PM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,849
Thanks: 16
Thanked 284 Times in 196 Posts
Rep Power: 4071
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

Nobody idles their turbo to cool it down under normal operation. If you pull off the road immediately after making significant boost for more than 30 seconds (which would propel you to 100+ mph) then you might want to cool it down. After towing, then yes. Its not a bad idea to do this with any motor that is heat soaked from working hard.

Our turbos are under very light loads in normal operation so by the time we idle through a parking lot or down the driveway, its fine to shut it off.

I will eventually shield my DEF injector. Shame on Jeep for that....but I don't regret owning my diesel GC. It has exceeded my expectations over the last 14k and 6 months.
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ExcursionDiesel For This Useful Post:
  #60  
Old 05-07-2014, 05:57 PM
GCOverland's Avatar
Jeep Addict
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,508
Thanks: 102
Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 3993
GCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond reputeGCOverland has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Service DEF - See Dealer

That is good to know.

A friend of our family owned several Diesels in the past (although not Trucks or SUVs) - and he never idled them prior to shutting off, either.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Purchase from one dealer, service from another. Brainfry Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 16 04-07-2012 08:54 PM
Best dealer for service doubleringer Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 14 03-29-2012 11:03 PM
Best dealer for service doubleringer Grand Cherokee - WK 0 03-26-2012 04:02 PM
First Time to Dealer for Service dogface_313 Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 12 07-21-2011 02:32 PM
Dealer Service Reminders TheNotoriousROB Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 4 02-01-2011 03:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.