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Old 06-02-2014, 05:20 PM
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Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

So we've been shopping for a new JGC 4x4 & I'm on the fence on taking the plunge with the diesel over the gas V-6 but love the idea of great MPG (for a 4x4 SUV) & the towing power & torque of a diesel but I'm a little wary of an engine without the proven track record of something like a Cummins.

So how many here knew they wanted the diesel one they decided on a JGC vs. those who considered the gas V-6 but were convinced to get the diesel after weighing both ?

Is they more complex turbo diesel worth it over the simpler gas V-6 ??

Thanks
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:01 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

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Originally Posted by cnatra View Post
So we've been shopping for a new JGC 4x4 & I'm on the fence on taking the plunge with the diesel over the gas V-6 but love the idea of great MPG (for a 4x4 SUV) & the towing power & torque of a diesel but I'm a little wary of an engine without the proven track record of something like a Cummins.

So how many here knew they wanted the diesel one they decided on a JGC vs. those who considered the gas V-6 but were convinced to get the diesel after weighing both ?

Is they more complex turbo diesel worth it over the simpler gas V-6 ??

Thanks
The diesel maker is VM Motori who has been making diesels since late 40s.
Gale Banks has been playing with it.

Consensus in car rags is that it is just a tad noisier than Mercedes, VW, etc. diesels--as it is a truck diesel.

It is a pretty good premium even over the Hemi.

3.6 V6 More than adequate, will get pretty much as many tickets as the other two engines.
Lower towing capacity, doesn't have the electronic limited slip of the other two.
The transmission is a mopar licensed ZF that makes it pretty zippy.

Hemi V8 Effortless cruising, even more effortless high speed passing on very steep
uphill mountains. ZF transmission is same as used in BMW and a few other Euro hot rods--and the diesel. Horsepower beats diesel hands down, torque is a bit less.
Towing capacity is same, but the horsepower beats the diesel once you get much above 50-60 for towing. Electronic limited slip.

Diesel 3.0 Torque torque torque. Same drivetrain as the Hemi.
The torque gets you moving, but the horsepower on the hemi will beat it once you get up there very far. A premium over the Hemi that you'd need to drive a lot to recover via mileage unless you make your own diesel. Dunno if Gale Banks has put
out any "surprise the Hemi" zippy kits yet or not.

Try to drive them before you decide. If you try the diesel, take your fat brother in laws as ballast for checking out all that haul power.
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

the Hemi is a non-starter for me because of the MPG & I've been impressed with how well the gas V-6 does with the 8spd but I'm really intrigued with the diesel

guess I better go test drive the diesel then ....
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:19 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

I considered the diesel for as long as it took me to crunch some numbers.

I don't tow, so purely from a fuel economy standpoint I couldn't justify the cost of the diesel or it's more expensive maintenance.

I've always had V8's in my GC's but this is my first V6. I've been very happy with it so far and it's meeting all of my needs. No regrets here.
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Old 06-03-2014, 02:08 AM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

Love the diesel. You will get better resale in the end, but it depends on what you tow, and what your driving habits are. If you drive mostly highway, or tow a lot, it is well worth the extra cost. IMHO
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:25 AM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

I too faced the same dilemma ... diesel or petrol

The V8 was out of the equation for me because of the premium on purchase price and greater use of fuel than the others.

For me the 3.6 made sense. I don't tow a caravan and for me 60% is highway driving.

For me the extra fuel costs for the petrol (above the diesel) worked out to around $25 per 1,000kms on country roads. and $45 per 1,000kms overall.

With the 30% plus higher servicing costs and dearer insurance I couldn't justify the diesel ..... but there is no doubt the diesel is quicker than the 3.6 .... but I don't care so much about that.
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:39 AM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

This is my second diesel grand cherokee so I have lots of experience with this platform with diesels. In fact I think diesel in heavy SUVs make perfect sense as they are workhorses and moving heavy objects is where they shine. They are very reliable and make driving easy with little need for downshifting as at 1,600 RPM it has full torque.

Resale value - better than expected as I sold my 2007 WK CRD (diesel) for only $2k less than I bought it (68k new and sold at 115k) - the only thing I did was keep up on maintenance and do a GDE tune and DPF delete ($1k total cost).

MPG in my older CRD - I averaged ~ 22 mpg city and ~ 27-28 mpg highway which by comparison Hemi owners say low teens city and mid teens highway. I went on a trip with another WK Hemi (soccer) from KC to STL and we both left with full tanks. By the time we arrived at the hotel (we followed each other) I was just above half a tank and they had to stop for gas in Warrenton (west of STL). I could have drove back to KC without refueling. As I tow and load it up for vacation trips with gear and family I'll see up to 50% better mpg over the Hemi which gives me 2x farther range from the same size fuel tank. That gave me flexibility to not plan pit stops based on gas stations.

EPA < Real World for Gas vehicles (diesels OTOH often exceed it): People who use EPA MPG to do calculation make it a hard sell b/c it's not indicative of real world MPG. EPA is done in a laboratory on a dyno wheel or EPA on your sticker is from an algorithm of math and not even tested. This leads to often gas heavy vehicles rarely meet EPA but diesels often exceed it. And after 10k miles a diesel will get you even better mpg as the engine is wears in like a good pair of shoes.

MPG in my WK2 Ecodiesel: I've gotten a 27 mpg doing 75 mph into a headwind and 18mpg towing an enclosed trailer with a car and a bunch of heavy stuff doing 72 mph both on the I70 corridor through Missouri so it's really hilly and lots of inclines. My best thus far was a 34.4 mpg at 62 mph on 40 mile drive on a nice flat road with some stops and small towns I had to slow down for. If I stay at 28 mpg and above I'd be seeing 800+ miles per tank and not have to plan my stops on long trips based on a gas stations but could stop at rest areas instead or local attractions (FWIW really wanted to see that biggest ball of yarn).
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:56 AM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

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Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
Diesel 3.0

<snip>

A premium over the Hemi that you'd need to drive a lot to recover via mileage unless you make your own diesel.

If you crunch the numbers for comparisons, also take into consideration the value of your time. For 50,000 miles, that's approx. 100 fillups for the Diesel and approx 180 fillups for the Hemi. At about 10 minutes per fillup (includes looking for a station, going to it, slowing down, etc...), that's an extra 800 minutes.

That's 13 extra hours out of your life, every 50,000 miles.

Might not be significant to some, but it's a consideration.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:28 AM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

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Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
If you crunch the numbers for comparisons, also take into consideration the value of your time. For 50,000 miles, that's approx. 100 fillups for the Diesel and approx 180 fillups for the Hemi. At about 10 minutes per fillup (includes looking for a station, going to it, slowing down, etc...), that's an extra 800 minutes.

That's 13 extra hours out of your life, every 50,000 miles.

Might not be significant to some, but it's a consideration.
So true when towing and you have to navigate a trailer into a gas station which are normally much tighter spaces (diesel pumps are usually on the end as it's normal that they need more room to navigate). I fill up on diesel before I tow and by the time I get to where I want to go I could drop off the trailer and fill up without it.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:07 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

We opted for the diesel because of the combination of towing torque and excellent mileage when not towing. We tow a 21 foot TT (maybe 4500 lbs fully loaded) and take one long distance towing trip per year (4000-6000 miles over two to three weeks), plus one or two shorter side trips, so we wanted a TV that would get decent mileage both when towing and when not towing the rest of the year. This ruled out the hemi. I decided against the V-6 despite its 6200 lb tow rating (within the 80% rule for us), both because of the lower mpg of the V-6 when towing (hence shorter hauls between fill-ups) and because I was concerned about handling the high Rocky Mountain passes. I am sure it would do fine, but likely at really high rpm's. We had been towing on mostly flat ground with a 2011 Honda Pilot V-6 -- quite comfortably-- but I did not want to use the Pilot as a mountain TV because we were at max towing capacity, and as long as we were upgrading the tow vehicle, I just wanted more oomph than a gas V-6. I am not an "early adopter" of any new technologies, but I was persuaded by the long track record of this engine in Europe. We have 9500 miles on the car now, including a 4200 mile towing trip through the Rockies (16mpg), and the car has performed flawlessly. My only concern was high engine temps going up the passes, but that was handled by monitoring the rpm's (see separate thread on this).
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Old 06-03-2014, 02:12 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

Get the Diesel.




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Old 06-03-2014, 03:18 PM
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Re: Shopping for a new JGC 4x4

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Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
If you crunch the numbers for comparisons, also take into consideration the value of your time. For 50,000 miles, that's approx. 100 fillups for the Diesel and approx 180 fillups for the Hemi. At about 10 minutes per fillup (includes looking for a station, going to it, slowing down, etc...), that's an extra 800 minutes.

That's 13 extra hours out of your life, every 50,000 miles.

Might not be significant to some, but it's a consideration.
It would be worth something to me if you'd offer to pay me for those 13 hours...

Otherwise, I'd have to put it in the class of "a few moments of Zen, and opportunity to browse thru 3-day old hot dogs"
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