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  #25  
Old 12-07-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSD View Post

Thanks, Chevy. Just back from a few days up in the mountains without the trailer (the JGC is perfect for the newly-retired). Will haul the trailer over to the beach at Camp Pendleton tomorrow for a week. (Sorry to others in the US suffering from miserable weather. It's going to be below freezing here, which is unusual but not in the same universe as many are suffering now.) No grade so won't be able to test its response again until January. Would still appreciate feedback from experts at Chrysler/Jeep or elsewhere as to whether the observed data is reasonable or not. And, if not, what the corporate solution is. I'll follow other advice in this thread and make sure not to tow in eco, downshift within reason, change the oil soon, etc... But, I look forward to more information and a long term solution. Don't believe I should have to shell out for additional equipment when I'm within the advertised specs.
I agree
I should have to upgrade the cooling system when i am using the vehicle within advertised specs
I believe in Australia it is a breach of the Trade Practices act
'Not fit for purpose'

I will be pursuing this if necessary through the courts
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  #26  
Old 12-08-2013, 11:21 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

I'm waiting on Jeep to let me know if this is a problem or normal operating conditions.

Many of us in the BMW camp freaked out at seeing 260F oil temps and coolant temps when the 335 twin turbo came out. Typical operating temp is 245F for the oil same for the coolant. This was 2007.

All about emissions. Hotter they run the better it controls the emissions output according to BMW>

Since the diesel is supposed to have the HD cooling temps running high should not be an issue but I for one would be really concerned seeing anything running close to the red on cooling.

My SuperDuty with flash program never reached 210F on trans temp or oil towing a large sailboat which was maybe 5000 pounds during the summer Florida heat. Hardly knew it was there.

Come on Jeep give us the scoop on these temps, normal, not normal or what!!!!
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:27 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

These temps are nothing to worry about.
If the temps are actually too high (either being turbine inlet temps, coolant temps, engine oil temps) the engine is going to automatically derate itself for protection. You can foot to the floor with a max trailer all day long and the engine will just chug along.

No trans oil heater on the WK, only DS.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:22 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

A brief recap of my first towing experience with my CRD:

- towed a 25' Airstream from Las Vegas to Pasadena and back.
--GAWR Front Actual 3140 lb
--GAWR Rear Actual 3700 lb
--Trailer 6600 lb
--Combined trailer/vehicle 13440 lb
--Average OAT 60 F
--Propride 3 Hitch and Direclink brake controller

- EVIC fuel milage averaged 19.5 mpg to Pasadena and 18.4 on return trip
- Engine performance
--EVIC oil temp climbed to 257 on long uphill pulls
--Coolant temp climbed to on notch below red area on gauge
--Slowing from 55 to 50 mph stabilized engine temps
--Temps quickly recovered on level or downhill grades
--Engine torque and power were not an issue
- Transmission performance
--EVIC transmission temp climbed to 203 once, but mostly stayed at 195
--Gear shifts were smooth and appropriate for the load (ECO mode OFF)

- The CRD now has 4300 miles on it. The EVIC oil life indicator is at 49%
and the DEF is a little under half a tank remaining.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2014, 01:51 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by talltale View Post
A brief recap of my first towing experience with my CRD:

- towed a 25' Airstream from Las Vegas to Pasadena and back.
--GAWR Front Actual 3140 lb
--GAWR Rear Actual 3700 lb
--Trailer 6600 lb
--Combined trailer/vehicle 13440 lb
--Average OAT 60 F
--Propride 3 Hitch and Direclink brake controller

- EVIC fuel milage averaged 19.5 mpg to Pasadena and 18.4 on return trip
- Engine performance
--EVIC oil temp climbed to 257 on long uphill pulls
--Coolant temp climbed to on notch below red area on gauge
--Slowing from 55 to 50 mph stabilized engine temps
--Temps quickly recovered on level or downhill grades
--Engine torque and power were not an issue
- Transmission performance
--EVIC transmission temp climbed to 203 once, but mostly stayed at 195
--Gear shifts were smooth and appropriate for the load (ECO mode OFF)

- The CRD now has 4300 miles on it. The EVIC oil life indicator is at 49%
and the DEF is a little under half a tank remaining.
Thanks, Talltale. This is very helpful. Sounds like we're pulling similar weights and you challenged some higher grades than I have to this point (I think the Cajon Pass is around 4000 ft.). We plan to travel into the Sierra this summer and Rockies next fall. Would you have any trepidation, given your experience? I hope others post their results as most of North America moves into the travel season this spring. Would also still like to hear from Chrysler that these spikes are nothing to be concerned about and that we can safely endure those temps for extended periods.
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2014, 03:11 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

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Originally Posted by BradSD View Post
Thanks, Talltale. This is very helpful. Sounds like we're pulling similar weights and you challenged some higher grades than I have to this point (I think the Cajon Pass is around 4000 ft.). We plan to travel into the Sierra this summer and Rockies next fall. Would you have any trepidation, given your experience? I hope others post their results as most of North America moves into the travel season this spring. Would also still like to hear from Chrysler that these spikes are nothing to be concerned about and that we can safely endure those temps for extended periods.
I also would like to know what's considered "normal" for this engine. I have nothing to compare it with other than my 2004 Duramax p/u. The Duramax temps also would begin to climb if I pushed it hard on long pulls uphill. Like the Jeep CRD, temps would stabilize once I backed off the speed. I think we will be fine towing in the mountains during the summer months. We may spend a little more time in the slow lane though.
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  #31  
Old 01-03-2014, 03:46 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

FYI -
Mobil1 ESP 5w30 has a flash point of 254 Celsius, which is around 490F, and a Viscosity Index of 164.
Oil temp on the EVIC is shown in Fahrenheit.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:20 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
FYI -
Mobil1 ESP 5w30 has a flash point of 254 Celsius, which is around 490F, and a Viscosity Index of 164.
Oil temp on the EVIC is shown in Fahrenheit.
I like to keep my engine oil temp in the range of 210 to 250 F. I'm under the impression for most modern oils thermal breakdown starts at around 275 F. I'll be the first to admit I'm no oil expert. I also would like to hear more from Chrysler on this topic.
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2014, 02:14 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

I did quite a lot of searching without hitting pay dirt on our specific oil. I did find several similar synthetics that were being tested at 150C for 100 hours by the manufacturer without significant breakdown. There is quite a large body of evidence indicating that the upper 200s is safely within the limits of modern synthetics. Not just anecdotal but also coming from reps from the oil companies. I notice for instance on Mobil's site there is a section where you can ask questions. A person asked if he was in trouble with his oil temps on his race car which were seeing 240C at the turbo outlet. The engineer that responded said that was not surprising and that Mobile 1 could hold up to intermittent temps in that range but that oxidation would occur and the oil should be changed every race. There are many such examples for those that want to search.

The intermittent part is something else to think about because it is actually a defined place. I've included a link to a youtube video that will likely bore a lot of people discussing some things about oils and temperatures. Its a rep talking but there is some good information.

For my part I'm not worrying about the temps reported until someone gives me good cause to be. Everything I know or can find says that the oil temps reported could be higher and I'd still be fine. I can also click search page after search page and not find any of our friends down under that hit an actual high oil temp fault/alarm and they've had this engine operating in high ambient temps for a while now. Since I'll be towing come spring I will soon be a data point myself I suppose.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:17 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

My twin turbo 335 BMW is designed to run 245F and I have seen 270F. It will go into limp mode when over 275F. Mandatory to run approved synthetic oil but what we have spec'ed is much better meaning lower ash and good HTHS numbers which is how I think they get away with 10K oil changes.
I can see this engine 3.0 VM, running hot all the time as that reduces emissions, hot meaning well over 210F which in the old days was bad news. Also our transmission had a heater in it to keep the temp at 174F or higher.
I too am waiting to hear from Chrysler but they seem silent on this topic so far. My guess is that we are all fine running these temps. My experience with diesels is the hotter they run the better they run...
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:52 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

FWIW there are thousands and thousands of Harleys running stop and go traffic in summer heat at 260-270 oil temps without any adverse effects on the oil. I have seen mine there many times.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:21 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

BradSD, some good info from the previous posters. Let me add some of my Ram 2500 towing pearls to your information.

1. Please be careful towing with your rig, because even though "1500" trucks and crossover vehicles are touting high tow rates, and RV dealers will let you leave with anything which will move the trailer, you can find yourself in a bad situation real fast towing with a smaller vehicle. I'm not doubting your towing ability, nor driving/towing skills. I'm only saying what I've seen happen in real life while towing on the road. IN the blink of an eye, you can find the the "tail wagging the dog", from say, a crosswind, or an aggressive driver causing you troubles.

2. With regards to engine temps, and such....When approaching a grade, I would select the lowest gear which doesn't approach the redline, as this will allow the whole machine to operate in less of a "%load", or what amounts to lugging the engine. You'd think the engine tranny would automatically take care of this, however, remember CAFE and you'll understand. I've watched my EGTs (exhaust gas temps) climb on my Ram towing our 5er, and just gearing down 1 or 2 gears allows me to maintain speed while maintaining much lower EGTs. You'll quickly get used to how your GC feels when it's starting to lug. Just read the terrain ahead, and even on a mild grade just downshift 1 or 2 gears and let everything "relax a bit". Then, if you are still feeling increasing throttle input, maybe gear down one more. The GC shouldn't let you downshift into an over-revving situation.

I do not know this to be a fact with our CRDs, but I would bet the engine would "defuel" before you will melt anything EGT related. Said another way, I don't think the 3.0 is gonna grenade, as I think it has safety factors and protective logic built into the tune.

3. Also, selecting a lower gear on grades helps protect the transmission, again by giving the transmission some mechanical advantage.

IF you are moving slowly at a campsite, or having to slowly climb a moderate to severe grade, select low range, if you have that option. That will really alleviate heat build up from a slipping torque converter. (Many a 2500 has boiled it's tranny fluid pulling up some tall grades, in high range, leading to parking areas at our motorcycle races.)

4. As fun2drive suggested, check into the Amsoil engine oil offering. If you pay a small yearly fee, you can get the oil for 8.50 a qt.

5. The oil life monitor will take into account your driving habits and you can expect a shorter oil duty cycle if you tow much. If you prefer to stick to your own oil change schedule, that's ok by me as well.

Just wanted to throw in a tow pic of picking up our 5er a few months ago.!

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