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  #37  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:07 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Now if you look at my signature you will see that I am biased towards Amsoil, buuuut I can certainly attest to the performance of their oils. Two independent companies took my UOA on a race bike that had 1000 race miles on the oil. That is 1000 miles at an average of 10,000 rpm and coolant temps >220*f. They confirmed that I could run that oil longer if I wanted to.
FWIW, you do not have to pay the dealer fee to buy Amsoil. Anyone can. It does offer some discounts though. So if you are doing 2 oil changes a year the savings more than cover the fee.
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Originally Posted by crabman View Post
The intermittent part is something else to think about because it is actually a defined place. I've included a link to a youtube video that will likely bore a lot of people discussing some things about oils and temperatures. Its a rep talking but there is some good information.
Nice find, Crabman! I knew there was nothing to be concerned about until well over 300*f but couldn't remember how high.
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Originally Posted by talltale View Post
I'm under the impression for most modern oils thermal breakdown starts at around 275 F.
Nope fast forward to the 4:09 mark in Crabby's video.
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Originally Posted by BossHoss View Post
FWIW there are thousands and thousands of Harleys running stop and go traffic in summer heat at 260-270 oil temps without any adverse effects on the oil. I have seen mine there many times.
Yessir! I got caught in weekend traffic at Niagara Falls and had 277* oil for probably 30+ minutes on my R1200 (air cooled boxer). No warning lights. I sent the oil in for a analysis at 5000 miles and was told it could go longer.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2014, 11:18 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

This whole discussion rings of a conversation I had with the makers of the motorcycles I ride. They added a system voltage monitor to the instrument cluster, and people were freaking out about how the V dropped at idle. "Too much information at the customers hands is NOT always a good thing".

Basically...if the light doesn't come on...don't worry about it.

Sure, we're seeing higher temps than we're used to. But speaking from personal experience...I'm "used to" seeing the temps that my '72 Satellite will run, or my 220k mile '01 Cummins will run. New engines, and new fluids, have much higher tolerances and specs than the older ones. And don't forget this engine requires a SPECIFIC oil - probably...for a reason.

Yes, EGT is the concern for a diesel when towing. I have boost and EGT gauges in my Cummins (it's a stick so no use for trans temp). It's a six speed. When towing (I work for an RV dealer so it happens a lot) I will downshift from 6 to 5 for even the slightest grade. Not only does it keep me from losing MPH, but it knocks a few hundred degrees off my EGTs. In automatic-speak....take it out of Eco, or put it in Sport. More RPM will equal more airflow through the engine, more coolant flow through the engine, more oil flow through the engine...and lower EGT's. Sure, lower RPM means better MPG...but for a couple bucks in fuel, I'd rather take better care of my engine internals. And to clarify a statement made earlier in the thread - more fuel flow equals LOWER EGT's. Fuel is a "coolant", if you will, and engines run hot when they run lean. In racing-speak - "lean is mean"...but you can melt important things like valves or pistons if you're too lean and too hot. Goose it and throw some more fuel at it, and it'll cool it off a bit.

Remember - our VM Motori's are high tech. Cooling oil jets spray the underside of the pistons. The rods are cracked-iron design with angled cap seams for clearance, because they're so beefy and wouldn't fit with a standard 90 degree seam. The mains aren't individual, but girdled...and they're still four-bolt design. The oil sump pickup tube is the same size as a Duramax tube. This is a pretty serious motor.

If it were me towing with one (I have the Cummins, so that gets my "drag something heavy" work), I'd slap it in S mode and go. If the warning light doesn't come on...don't sweat it. And, follow your "severe duty" oil change schedule.

And any time you work it hard...MAKE SURE YOU IDLE IT FOR 90 SECONDS BEFORE TURNING IT OFF. That circulates cooling oil and coolant through the turbocharger, and keeps it from "coking" into dry carbon and ruining your turbo.
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  #39  
Old 04-01-2014, 03:38 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

I am going to the dealer tonight, I will ask them about normal transmission and oil temperatures while towing and how hot is considered "too hot"?
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  #40  
Old 04-01-2014, 04:47 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by racer-xerols View Post
Yes, EGT is the concern for a diesel when towing. I have boost and EGT gauges in my Cummins (it's a stick so no use for trans temp). It's a six speed. When towing (I work for an RV dealer so it happens a lot) I will downshift from 6 to 5 for even the slightest grade. Not only does it keep me from losing MPH, but it knocks a few hundred degrees off my EGTs. In automatic-speak....take it out of Eco, or put it in Sport. More RPM will equal more airflow through the engine, more coolant flow through the engine, more oil flow through the engine...and lower EGT's. Sure, lower RPM means better MPG...but for a couple bucks in fuel, I'd rather take better care of my engine internals. And to clarify a statement made earlier in the thread - more fuel flow equals LOWER EGT's. Fuel is a "coolant", if you will, and engines run hot when they run lean. In racing-speak - "lean is mean"...but you can melt important things like valves or pistons if you're too lean and too hot. Goose it and throw some more fuel at it, and it'll cool it off a bit.
I agree with all that you say...except that my belief is that "lean burns hot" is only related to gas engines.

EGT is directly related to piston velocity and BTUs released by the fuel. More fuel and lower RPMs create higher temps. When the fuel is burned on the power stroke, the longer the flame stays in the combustion chamber, the hotter it gets. Higher RPMs allow the hot gasses to leave quickly and fresh cold air to enter.

Higher RPMs also create more power at a lower torque so the work is done with less engine and transmission stress.

The worst case scenario for high EGT is wide open throttle under a load that is too great to sustain while at a lower RPM (aka "Lugging"). Most automatics will downshift...but, as mentioned, the ECO programming could possibly delay or prevent downshifting long enough to experience very high EGTs. It only takes a second for EGT to rise, and damage can occur after 15 seconds. Metal parts begin to anneal and change properties (melt or weaken) with higher temps.

As has been mentioned, tow smart. Get an ODBII interface that reads EGT and drive within the limits by manually downshifting or slowing down if necessary. For our automatics, watch the trans temp on the EVIC as well.

Hopefully, the VM3.0 de-fuels itself on high EGT but until someone tows heavy and confirms that it is impossible to hit high EGTs for extended periods, better safe than sorry!

BTW, all if this is standard stuff for the diesel towing and racing crowd. We are just now discussing it here. Its no big deal.
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  #41  
Old 04-16-2014, 02:18 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

A few people are mentioning other vehicles which don't change in temp when they hit a hill.

There ain't no such animal. All you are seeing is a "dumbed down gauge", like on my wife's Hyundai i30 diesel.
Working hard, Aircon on, climbing a mountain range on a hot summer day, gauge sits half way.
Winter's day, descending the same range, gauge sits half way. Total baloney.
Many modern cars are like that, really no better than the old temp light cars once had.

A good friend's Landcruiser v8 diesel is like that- he was always boasting how the "Toyota has a proper cooling system", yet with an infra-red temp scanner I've proven the total outright lie which is the coolant temp gauge. Yes, he was shocked to see the real truth, after we towed up the Toowoomba range. I got him to pull over and pop the bonnet, and hey, guess what, the coolant temp was about 112 degrees Celsius, (233 F), not the story the gauge was telling!
Anyway, that's why we have pressurised cooling systems and high tech coolants, to raise the boiling point.

At least on our JGC diesels, we have a gauge which seems to tell the truth.

Has anybody had one actually overheat?
Not that I know of yet.

Mine is only brand new, no towing yet, but will certainly be watching it with interest rather than alarm!

Cya



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  #42  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:39 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

^^^^ That is the best explanation yet. Thanks!
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