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  #73  
Old 07-16-2014, 08:52 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Frydryce, when oil temp showed 270, where was the needle on the dash temp guage? I agree with your conclusion based on my experience towing over Colorado mountain passes, but still get sweaty palms as that needle approaches the red zone.
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  #74  
Old 07-17-2014, 11:31 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

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Originally Posted by Emersonjeep View Post
Frydryce, when oil temp showed 270, where was the needle on the dash temp guage? I agree with your conclusion based on my experience towing over Colorado mountain passes, but still get sweaty palms as that needle approaches the red zone.
Water temp was in the middle so I wasn't concerned. But even checking oil after a round trip it was still nice and golden. I'm just hoping that this experience will be the same on a diesel, my Hemi lease is up in a month and I'm looking at getting this motor. but so far, no reports of actual overheating, just some sweaty palms.
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  #75  
Old 07-18-2014, 07:42 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

You are right. I had my oil changed after going over Loveland, Vail and Wolf creek passes in Colorado, and the dealer said the oil was fine. Our JGC now has almost 12000 miles, about 5000 towing, and I love it both towing and for regular driving. It drives and tows like a dream and we have had zero-- I mean zero-- problems, other than my worrying about that dumb water temp idiot-type gauge when driving over those three mountain passes. We are enjoying 31 mpg on the highway, 23 mpg driving around town (I commute 12 miles RT to work), and 16 mpg pulling a 21 foot TT about 4500 lbs loaded.
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  #76  
Old 07-18-2014, 08:41 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this discussion. I'm the guy with the original set of questions. Unfortunately, I broke my right foot pretty badly in early January, was unable to walk and drive for nearly five months and have not towed since then. It's been a real challenge sitting on the sidelines. Sounds like no one has actually overheated yet, which is good news. We'll be towing about 6800 lbs over mountain passes in the near future and I trust that record will continue. Keep the reports coming.
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  #77  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:58 PM
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3200 mile tow vacation.

My trailer is a 19' Pioneer that weighs about 5500 loaded. The trip started in Lake Havasu, AZ early in the morning so had no heat issues. Once in Oregon we went up to Crater Lake and other grades. The highest temps I saw was 262 oil, and 202 trans. Like everyone else I think the readings are scaled. The temps go up and down to quickly for my experience.
I had a check engine light come on steady so took it to the local dealer in Coos Bend. Since there was not grades and the OAT was cool I assumed it was not related to heat. After three starts the light went out and since it was a weekend I continued my vacation. On the last 150 miles back to AZ, we were traveling down I-40 from Barstow to Needles and the air conditioning got warm like the compressor had stopped. I know the compressor will kick out at a certain temp so I pulled over and waited until the engine oil came down to about 210 and tuned the engine off for a moment to reset everything and the air came back on. Problem continued.
Took the car to the dealer next day. They are checking everything.

The BIG news is this:

1st. The PCM can not be programed by the dealer. So we can't have the fans come on early. I told them that GM products can be modified.

2nd. The cooling capacity for the 3.0 diesel is 12 quarts total.
The cooling capacity for the 5.7 hemi is 16 quarts with the tow package.

I don't know if the difference is in the block or the radiator. I tried to get the rad capacity but didn't have the time to wait as the parts guy was new or slow. If someone has a friend at a dealership, it would be great to do a side by side comparison of the two. This may be our answer.

3rd. The service writer said that he has had 3 others with the same complaint about heat while towing.

Hope this helps. When I get the car back tomorrow I Will follow up on the check engine light and other info.

Mike V
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  #78  
Old 07-31-2014, 08:42 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Diesels actually run cooler than gas motors. Here's a neat little article describing the merits of diesel engines :


http://news.wyotech.edu/post/2012/03.../#.U9pNrtF0yUk.
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  #79  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:01 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Does the 3.0L diesel have mechanical fan and fan clutch (in addition to an electric fan)? The reason I'm asking is that many, many Liberty CRD owners went through the overheating experience while towing in 2005 and later. Jeeps answer was to issue a software update that compressed the temp gauge reading that made it look better, but never fixed the issue.

Later, we discovered that the mechanical fan clutch, a viscous temperature controlled unit, had 2 major problems. 1 was that it didn't cut in soon enough for heavy heat loads and the other was that it quickly went defective and rarely cut in at all, causing true overheating. By quickly, on mine, it went bad in 4 months. This caused the electric fan to kick on and run almost continuously, which it didn't do before the fan clutch acted up.

It wasn't a problem in normal driving 99% of the time, but towing on hills and even just driving without towing when the outside temps hit triple digits, the temp gauge would climb to the red zone and the EVIC chime would start sounding, until it reduced power. The first sign of trouble was when the AC started reducing its load cycle and not cooling as it should. The water temps on the Liberty are much lower than the GC, it has a 180*F thermostat, so climbing to 215* to 225*F while driving was not normal, in spite of the assurances of Jeep personnel about PCM programming safeguards.

Just like the GC, the Liberty programming has safeguards built in, like shutting of the AC and as a last resort, reducing fueling somewhere around 226*F IIRC. We had the same issue with the electric fan, in that the dealers could not lower the kick-in temperature on those either with their factory scan tools. Aftermarket tunes can, but not the dealership. Clearly not a solution for those wanting to keep warranty intact.

IMO, if you get to the point where the PCM is reducing fueling to save the engine, things have gone too far.

In our case, we found an answer in an aftermarket fan clutch by Hayden. It cut in some 20* to 25*F sooner than the factory unit and once we installed those, the issue disappeared completely. Before the aftermarket fan clutch, I had at least one incident per summer, even without towing, when the ambients were over 100*F when my coolant temps would climb to 215*F. That might sound low in comparison, but the 05 CRD Liberty thermostat is a 180*F unit - it shouldn't be going to 215*F at all.

Once I installed the Hayden fan clutch, which has been quite a few years ago, I've never had another overheating experience, even when our summer temps hit 108*F and the humidity was at 95%. Those who installed new factory fan clutches still had overheating episodes, not eliminated until they replaced it with an aftermarket fan clutch with a lower temperature cut in point.

From some of the posts I've seen, Jeep has raised the operating temps on the GC quite bit due to emissions, but if you're losing AC capacity and getting into reduced power, it's not normal. The Liberty cooling capacity is around 12 quarts for a 2.8L engine that makes 163 hp and 295 ft-lbs of torque, stock, so it has enough coolant capacity. It was just a fan clutch with too high a engagement point and defective in that it the silicon fluid would leak and then it woudn't engage at all after a short time. Even those who had their engines tuned to 200 hp and 380 ft-lbs of torque never had a problem with overheating with the aftermarket fan clutch.

Just a thought. It might be worth checking out your FSM to see what the fan clutch kick in point is (if the GC has one) and seeing if it's working as designed.

Best wishes.
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:29 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

FYI - The VM Motori diesel does not have a viscous coupled fan on the motor, just a large electrically operated fan.
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  #81  
Old 07-31-2014, 01:22 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

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Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
FYI - The VM Motori diesel does not have a viscous coupled fan on the motor, just a large electrically operated fan.
A simple solution to controlling the electric fan would be to add an electro-mechnical temperature switch that pulls in a bypass relay to force the fan on at whatever temperature you prefer.
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  #82  
Old 07-31-2014, 02:34 PM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
A simple solution to controlling the electric fan would be to add an electro-mechnical temperature switch that pulls in a bypass relay to force the fan on at whatever temperature you prefer.
That's one option if Jeep doesn't issue a software update to energize the electric fan sooner. Speaking of which, if all the 3.0L VM diesel in the GC has is electric fan(s), it must be a whopper. It takes both mechanical and electric fans on the older 2.8L VM diesel. The standard V6 Liberty had just an electric, but with either the towing or off-road package, the mechanical fan was added, along with a deeper shroud.

Is there any difference in the cooling fans with/without the towing or off-road packages on the GC diesel?
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  #83  
Old 07-31-2014, 05:25 PM
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Re: 3200 mile tow vacation.

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Originally Posted by Mike V View Post
My trailer is a 19' Pioneer that weighs about 5500 loaded. The trip started in Lake Havasu, AZ early in the morning so had no heat issues. Once in Oregon we went up to Crater Lake and other grades. The highest temps I saw was 262 oil, and 202 trans. Like everyone else I think the readings are scaled. The temps go up and down to quickly for my experience.
I had a check engine light come on steady so took it to the local dealer in Coos Bend. Since there was not grades and the OAT was cool I assumed it was not related to heat. After three starts the light went out and since it was a weekend I continued my vacation. On the last 150 miles back to AZ, we were traveling down I-40 from Barstow to Needles and the air conditioning got warm like the compressor had stopped. I know the compressor will kick out at a certain temp so I pulled over and waited until the engine oil came down to about 210 and tuned the engine off for a moment to reset everything and the air came back on. Problem continued.
Took the car to the dealer next day. They are checking everything.

The BIG news is this:

1st. The PCM can not be programed by the dealer. So we can't have the fans come on early. I told them that GM products can be modified.

2nd. The cooling capacity for the 3.0 diesel is 12 quarts total.
The cooling capacity for the 5.7 hemi is 16 quarts with the tow package.

I don't know if the difference is in the block or the radiator. I tried to get the rad capacity but didn't have the time to wait as the parts guy was new or slow. If someone has a friend at a dealership, it would be great to do a side by side comparison of the two. This may be our answer.

3rd. The service writer said that he has had 3 others with the same complaint about heat while towing.

Hope this helps. When I get the car back tomorrow I Will follow up on the check engine light and other info.

Mike V
I did some digging and found references to Heavy Duty Engine Cooling on the 2014 Group IV Tow Package. I could not find a description of what that includes.

Some checking on the Jeep parts catalog for the 2013 Jeep GC (nothing on the 14 GC yet) shows 2 different cooling options for the Hemi engines on the GC - standard and heavy duty engine cooling. The heavy duty cooling parts include a different radiator and different electric fan. The Heavy Duty parts combined are ~ $250 more than the standard cooling parts, presumably they include a larger radiator and higher flow fan.

Assuming the 2014 Ecodiesel GC has the same Heavy Duty Engine cooling parts available as the Hemi engines, I'm curious if anyone reporting high coolant temps while towing has the Heavy Duty Engine Cooling package on their GC? It should be listed on the build sheet if it's included.

If this has already been covered elsewhere, please ignore. There's a lot on this site I haven't had time to read yet.
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  #84  
Old 08-01-2014, 08:15 AM
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Re: Towing Review//Engine Heat

Mine has the HD tow package. The dealer called yesterday and said they have an computer update for the AC, lets see if it is higher set point for the compressor or lower set point for fan... Should know today.

Thanks, Mike V
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