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  #13  
Old 02-23-2014, 03:11 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

This is the problem with Jeep sharing too much info with us. They give us a "real" gauge and then we start to think that there is a problem. So we take it to the dealership, who charges Jeep for a warranty claim even though nothing was wrong. This happened with Ford trucks and their oil pressure gauges. The solution? Back in the 90s they started just putting the gauge on a on/off pressure switch. If there was more than 5 psi or something like that the gauge would always read the exact same. In other words it was no different than an idiot light really, but it fixed all of the complaints they were receiving from vehicle owners about oil pressure gauges fluctuating.

Just watch. If we keep bugging Jeep about it the oil temp gauges will just be removed on future models. Their engineers will smile and say to themselves "problem solved"
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:25 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

It isn't engineers that make that type of decision but program managers and finance...
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:32 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

I just purchased a 2014 Overland Diesel about 10 days ago, and I'm seeing transmission temps in the 195 range in stop and go traffic and around town here in Los Angeles. What worried me is that this is the only gauge in the EVIC where the "normal" operating temp of 195-205 as some have mentioned on this thread is far past the mid-point of the gauge display. I actually emailed Chrysler to confirm the proper temp and they were useless and directed me to purchase a service manual and contact my dealer. I then spoke to my dealer service department who said that as long as I don't see a warning light it's fine, so again useless.

This thread has made me feel more comfortable about what I'm seeing, but it would be great if someone is able to confirm with Jeep/Chrysler and/or ZF that they officially expect these transmissions to run in that 200 degree range. Some ZF literature actually states that temps over 200 degrees will do irreparable damage to their transmission, so I'm still a bit nervous on this issue.

Thanks to everyone for the input though.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:16 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

This is synthetic ATF and the transmission is designed to run a minimum of 174F which to means running well over 200F isn't an issue at all. Non synthetic transmissions would be hurting running them well over 200F. I have seen the charts showing transmission fluid life and the lower the better regarding temperature but it doesn't apply in this case. The higher oil temperatures help to increase mpgs and reduce emissions for the engine and that is the direction most manufacturers are going.
Synthetic oil which is what this LifeGuard 8 is will live to 300F by the way. So when I check mine and see it is in the mid 190's I think yep right about where it should be given a light load...
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:16 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

Synthetic transmission fluid may tolerate heat better, but what about transmission parts? I've read that trannies contain plastic (or akin to plastic) parts that will degrade from the high heat. Any truth to that? Any mechanic types on here?
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:10 AM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

I had my first towing experience last week, so I thought I would add my experience (4x4 Limited; 3000lb trailer). The transmission temperature generally sat at 195F. I did not see it go above that. Oil temperature went up to 230F going up hill. The ambient temperature was 60F - 80F.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:41 AM
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For reference, the highest trans temp I've seen was in snow mode creeping in horrible traffic (during the embarrassing snowmageddon experience here in Atlanta--spent 9 hours to go 15 miles including rescuing stranded people). My trans temp creeped up to 217F. Traffic was barely moving in the ice and snow for several hours. Starting in second in snow mode likely had something to do with it. Engine oil temp hovered between 226F and 235F.

The transmission temp would creep up to that max then the engine fan would come on and it would VERY quickly drop to 205-206F, fan would cycle down and it would creep up again. So, I turned on the A/C (keeping the heat on high) which kept the fan on a low cycle all the time and the trans temp then rapidly fell to 188F and stayed there.

In everyday driving mine will reach 194-197F EVENTUALLY. In stop and go with constant accelerations being used it might hit this temp and hover there after 15-20 minutes of this. On a highway trip, starting from a trans temp of 80F or so, it will take anywhere from 45-60 miles before it finally reaches 195F or so, depending on whether I have any spirited accelerations along the way.

Note: neither the trans oil temp or engine oil temps seem to be super accurate throughout the full range. When the vehicle has totally cooled to ambient (overnight or longer) my engine oil and trans temps will tend to read notably higher than ambient before startup. For example, this morning it was 39F outside and my oil and trans temps read 64F. This may be the bottom of the scale as I'm not sure if I've seen them lower, or it might be these particular sensors (same ones as the coolant temp sensor) are more inaccurate outside their center scale (pretty common for these types of sensors actually).
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:05 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

I had found a post once that gave the play by play state of ATF as it heated, e.g. at a certain temp it begins losing its ability to properly engage.

I will try to find that again.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:45 PM
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Re: Transmission & Oil Temperatures

Not vouching for the gauges accuracy but the engine will hold some heat for a very long time. Having a diesel for many years now, there is a noticeable difference when you start up in the morning when it sat for 8 hours verses a day or more. This is even more pronounced when it gets down into single digits.

Put a big pot of hot soup out on your porch when it is below freezing and it is likely that the next day even the next night it might not be totally frozen. Naturally the temp and exposure to wind alters things a good bit but I have had pots of soup or sauce sit on my sun porch where the temp is in the teens and found that they were just starting to ice up nearly 24 hours later.

It is not quite as dramatic in the GC but in some of the older diesels I have owned, start up was noticeably different in the morning if I went shopping and shut the car down at 9 or 10 PM as opposed to those nights where I got home and parked it until the next day. I guess you also got feedback because you had to wait for the glow plug light to go out before you tried starting. With the GC the time for the glow plugs to heat up is that pause you get but since you are not sitting there waiting to hit the button again you really do not get a sense that one pause is much more than another.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzieque View Post
I had found a post once that gave the play by play state of ATF as it heated, e.g. at a certain temp it begins losing its ability to properly engage. I will try to find that again.
It doesn't really lose it's ability to "engage" so to speak. At very high temperatures, viscosity and lubricity diminish. This can effect the ability to hold hydraulic pressure on a clutch pack and can affect the ability to properly lubricate and protect moving parts.

However, the biggest issue with heat is oil breakdown. Most transmission fluids are basically engine oils base stocks with different additive packages (much more detergent, friction modifiers, etc). Most engine oils routinely see sustained temperatures over 220-260F in modern engines. They break down over time with these temps, which is one reason they need to be changed frequently (also, they get contaminated by combustion byproducts). But one needs to remember that engine oils are also exposed to much higher temps briefly which aids this breakdown process.

Older transmission fluids would start to get in trouble with sustained temps over 240F. You could calculate the fluid life based on the temperature -- at 180-190F it might last 80-100k miles but at 240F you might be down to 15-20k miles.

Modern synthetics are much more tolerant of higher operating temperatures. However, I wouldn't want to run transmission temps of 240F continuously. That said, 200F wouldn't give me any concern, or up to 220F or so as long as it wasn't sitting there all the time.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor5618 View Post
Not vouching for the gauges accuracy but the engine will hold some heat for a very long time. Having a diesel for many years now, there is a noticeable difference when you start up in the morning when it sat for 8 hours verses a day or more. This is even more pronounced when it gets down into single digits. Put a big pot of hot soup out on your porch when it is below freezing and it is likely that the next day even the next night it might not be totally frozen. Naturally the temp and exposure to wind alters things a good bit but I have had pots of soup or sauce sit on my sun porch where the temp is in the teens and found that they were just starting to ice up nearly 24 hours later. It is not quite as dramatic in the GC but in some of the older diesels I have owned, start up was noticeably different in the morning if I went shopping and shut the car down at 9 or 10 PM as opposed to those nights where I got home and parked it until the next day. I guess you also got feedback because you had to wait for the glow plug light to go out before you tried starting. With the GC the time for the glow plugs to heat up is that pause you get but since you are not sitting there waiting to hit the button again you really do not get a sense that one pause is much more than another.
Oh I'm aware of heat soak and oil heat retention. These observations were true even with the vehicle sitting for up to 3 days.
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:59 PM
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This evening my tranny temp went to 213 while I was easing around in heavy traffic. It is rare for me to drive in those conditions. When we finally found a restaurant that wasn't packed, we parked. I could smell a burnt rubber smell and raised the hood to inspect. I saw nothing wrong. I suspect some adhesives and manufacturing too cooked off from the heat. My GC never got that hot before. I have 10,500 miles on it. Anyone else experienced this?
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