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  #49  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:05 PM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

Well it looks like Mr. Winterkorn has resigned. Predictable, but more heads will roll.


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  #50  
Old 09-24-2015, 06:06 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I guess lots of people also forgot that the diesel Grand Cherokee was also late in getting EPA's approval 2 years ago and its sale was delayed a few times. I know I posted EPA test and certification data on this site, at the time. I guess some companies were tying to get it done the legal way and others tried to cook the books.

How many years has VW been unchallenged in the small car segment in regards to offering a diesel engine? Financially, that is when you want to profit the most - no competition and minimize the manufacturing costs? The period of time also coincided with high gas prices and everyone wanted an alternative.

A BMW 335d is still a car I consider for my sedan replacement.
Since the E36 I haven't been impressed with BMW on a long term 200k mile ownership. They also got porky. Our E91 sportwagon was a money pit. Too complicated and parts were a lot more expensive. For example electronic water pump is $750. Mechanical one was $75 in the E36. Brand is no longer for DIY enthusiasts. Bunch of weird mk models and 50% of their fleet is leased by customers now. No worries.. X5 plug in hybrid is coming in Oct. LOL.
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  #51  
Old 09-24-2015, 06:41 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

Just dropped in at 7am. After reading this http://www.transportenvironment.org/...st-tip-iceberg
ealier this week I was waiting to see this below. My concern is this is no longer a VW problem and diesel may be relegated to a niche market only seen on luxury vehicles. VW customers aren't going to buy a Cruze nor step up to Mercedes. Paves the way for EV as lithium battery pricing continues to drop.

By Naomi Kresge and Tony Czuczka
(Bloomberg) -- The diesel-cheating affair that toppled Volkswagen AG’s chief executive officer deepened as Germany announced plans to widen its investigation and the scandal threatened to ensnare rival BMW AG.
BMW plunged as much as 9.7 percent after a German magazine reported Thursday that a diesel version of the X3 sport utility vehicle emitted as much as 11 times the European limit for air pollution in a road test. German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt said that spot checks of vehicles would not be limited to VW.
“It’s self-evident” that Germany’s motor vehicle administration “will concentrate its investigations not only on the Volkswagen models in question but will also do spot checks of other car manufacturers,” Dobrindt told reporters in Berlin.
The entire auto industry and the methods used for testing vehicles are coming under scrutiny following revelations that VW’s “clean diesel” cars have software intended to defeat emissions tests. The European automakers’ lobby group, the ACEA, on Wednesday placed the blame in VW’s court, issuing a statement saying that “there is no evidence this is an industry-wide issue.”
The BMW SUV was road-tested by the International Council on Clean Transportation, the same group whose tipoff led U.S.
regulators to investigate a gap between VW diesels’ emissions in tests and on the road, Germany’s Autobild reported. BMW said that there’s no system in its cars that responds to tests differently than it would operate on the road.

Shares Drop

“There is no function to recognize emissions testing cycles at BMW,” the Munich-based company said in a statement in response to the report. “All emissions systems remain active outside the testing cycles.”
BMW shares traded down 6.6 percent to 74.53 euros at 12:59 p.m. in Frankfurt. German carmaker Daimler AG dropped as much as
5.8 percent. VW, which has lost more than 20 billion euros in market value this week, was 2 percent higher.
“There’s no suggestion BMW has done anything illegal,” said Juergen Pieper, an Frankfurt-based analyst with Bankhaus Metzler. “However, there are concerns for the long-term damage on the business with diesel cars for every manufacturer that builds cars with these engines.”

Resignation

Winterkorn resigned Wednesday after revelations that the company cheated on diesel emission tests. Other executives may also lose their jobs, and the automaker is seeking a criminal investigation into the affair. VW’s supervisory board will discuss the CEO’s replacement at its meeting on Friday.
Possible successors include Porsche unit chief Matthias Mueller, who is backed by members of the family that controls a majority stake in Volkswagen, and Herbert Diess, a former BMW AG executive who took over the newly created post of VW brand chief this year, a person familiar with the matter said.
Emissions measured in road tests of 15 new diesel cars were an average of about seven times higher than European limits, according to a study ICCT published last October.
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2015, 07:45 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

What I find really strange is the following, on the 18th of September when the EPA came up with the violation at VW, stocks had already fallen in a huge way...

From Mid March to Mid Sept the VW stocks dropped -34% about $55B devaluation...

And if we compare all other manufacturers for the same time period, the drop was from -11% to -16%

So, almost like if some large investors new about this fiasco before it hit the main streets... Not to forget, VW being the most profitable automobile manufacture in the world. And looses -34% prior to this fiasco? seriously? NOT.
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  #53  
Old 09-24-2015, 07:47 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

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Originally Posted by Morax View Post
What I find really strange is the following, on the 18th of September when the EPA came up with the violation at VW, stocks had already fallen in a huge way...

From Mid March to Mid Sept the VW stocks dropped -34% about $55B devaluation...

And if we compare all other manufacturers for the same time period, the drop was from -11% to -16%

So, almost like if some large investors new about this fiasco before it hit the main streets... Not to forget, VW being the most profitable automobile manufacture in the world. And looses -34% prior to this fiasco? seriously? NOT.
VW dropped on China slowdown and poor sales volume in the US. No one saw this coming.
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  #54  
Old 09-24-2015, 07:57 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

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VW dropped on China slowdown and poor sales volume in the US. No one saw this coming.
Well lets see...-34%, china and US sales not being there? I don't think this would explain this type of drop...but hey, what do I know! Was just curious in these facts. I do not own VW stocks anymore, so no biggy.
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  #55  
Old 10-01-2015, 08:28 PM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

TFLcar.com tested a VW Jetta to see if power and torque differed between testing modes and normal driving



I personally think that the "cheat" also involved detection of instrumentation plugged into the OBD-2 connector - which is not mentioned in the video.
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:21 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

IMO VW getting busted just revealed automakers dirty little secret. All it took was one bit being triggered by a front or rear wheel rotation sensor or accelerometer. When on a dyno and all 4 wheels don't spin or acceleration = 0, run the Clean Code, otherwise, run the code which allows the engine & emissions components to live past the warranty period. You know there sure seems to be a pretty big parasitic loss to make the SAE hp numbers be so much more than those measured on 3rd party dynos while still providing great MPG...

We were speculating in the office how compartmentalized these actions needed to be. Would the director of engineering have to know? Prolly not. I design electrical controls and write software and the Eng Mgr isn't aware of the nuts and bolts of my work. It was probably within the Emissions group of hardware and software engineers. I would say no more than 4-6 guys is all it would take. Once the initial version of software was written, there would be no reason for an unknowing software engineer to go poking around the entire program, only the subroutine or program they were addressing that needed tweaking.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:00 PM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

More testing commissioned by the BBC in UK, using a Ford Focus Focus and a VW
Two cars road tested - how clean are they? - BBC News

With so many sensors on the cars today, I am sure that a manufacturer willing to cheat could tap into any number of sensors to provide feedback for road-going vs. dyno testing. TFL car, in the video above, thought of the ABS sensors.

How far up the chain of command did the knowledge exist? Well, during Martin Winterkorn the group expanded a lot. He had lead the company from 2007 until a few days ago. But I remember this spring Porsche tried to get control of the whole "pie" and oust Winterkorn. Maybe...the board of directors and the rest of the leadership had a premonition of turbulent times ahead.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:45 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

Yeah, I think this whole thing is unfortunate. The CR TDI's get KILLER economy without emissions running 100%.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:04 PM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

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More testing commissioned by the BBC in UK, using a Ford Focus Focus and a VW
Two cars road tested - how clean are they? - BBC News
It appeared that neither vehicle hit their NOx or MPG targets.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:33 AM
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Re: VW admits to EPA that diesel equipped cars will only meet emissions when tested

I have friends with TDI Jettas that are illegal but they get 65 mpg highway real world (and that's if they keep it under 80 mph). It's unfortunate as the TDIs were the golden child of US acceptance of diesels in passenger cars. I'm thinking of picking one up - TDI Sportwagen with 6 speed manual if they come down in price as predicted.
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