WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 08-27-2014, 04:34 PM
KONE-DAWG's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North America
Posts: 134
Thanks: 3
Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 1545
KONE-DAWG is on a distinguished road
WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Happened twice with tank showing less than 1/4 (>1/8) tank and estimated distance to travel over 100 miles.
Complete shut down of engine with codes P016F and P0087 (low fuel rail pressure) generated.
This is worse than limp mode, this is no power to anything
Lucky no one injured, but similar critical situation as to when GM car ignition self shut off, and we all know how that ended for some unfortunate souls. I feel very fortunate that I escaped unharmed with only fried nerves. I advised dealer service to push the warning up the chain. If this is a potential problem with the design and not a one-off pump failure, lives can be in danger.
Jeep Tech (Detroit?) is aware of this and current solution is to keep >1/2 tank of fuel. Problem as I understand it is the auxillary (2nd) fuel tank has a pump that transfers fuel to main tank. It is this auxilliary tank's fuel pump that is defective. Dealer not currently able to order replacement part, told me it is on "galactic backorder". His interpretation is that a new design is underway???. This must be happening to others since my local dealer found out about it through their tech system. The codes generated are red-herrings since they are "downstream" from the primary problem.
Full tank of fuel and car runs like a champ.

Advise: keep tanks full as possible or at least >1/4 minimum, and try running below 1/8-1/4 tank under controlled circumstances to see what happens. No idea if petrol V6 or V8 have similar problems. I expect it is CRD only.

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KONE-DAWG For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 08-27-2014, 05:52 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2005 2.8L KJ
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 34
Thanks: 4
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 1284
Ranger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Report it on the NHTSA site. That's a serious situation. If it's a one off or low count failure, nothing will come of it. If it's a widespread problem, you want it documented early on before someone is seriously hurt.

I've had a P0087 code failure situation years ago on my KJ due to a completely different part failure (fuel filter head electrical failure caused a huge fuel leak)

You're right, there is no warning of any kind, no limp mode, the engine just shuts off immediately (no fuel) right while you're driving down the highway. Not what you want to experience.

Glad no harm came of it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-27-2014, 06:30 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,031
Thanks: 74
Thanked 279 Times in 246 Posts
Rep Power: 46364
lstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger1 View Post
Report it on the NHTSA site. That's a serious situation. If it's a one off or low count failure, nothing will come of it. If it's a widespread problem, you want it documented early on before someone is seriously hurt.

I've had a P0087 code failure situation years ago on my KJ due to a completely different part failure (fuel filter head electrical failure caused a huge fuel leak)

You're right, there is no warning of any kind, no limp mode, the engine just shuts off immediately (no fuel) right while you're driving down the highway. Not what you want to experience.

Glad no harm came of it.
If the fuel pressure sensor does not detect enough fuel pressure in the injector fuel rail, it WILL immediately shut the engine off. Doesn't matter if due to a failed fuel pump, a busted injector, a big hole in the high pressure fuel circuit, whatever.

That's intentional, as if you spring a big leak in that high pressure circuit, you might barbeque your engine, your vehicle, and yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-27-2014, 07:04 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2005 2.8L KJ
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 34
Thanks: 4
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 1284
Ranger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Correct, low pressure on the fuel rail will cause a shutdown, but you could be just as injured or dead, if it happens right after merging onto a high speed freeway and lose all power in front of an 18 wheeler.

Same technical reason exists on the VW TDI HPFP fuel pump failure - the ECM shuts it down cold when the pump dies (no high pressure in the rail), but the NHTSA investigation still exists due to the safety concern.

It's not about programmed shutdowns, it's about whether a defect exists as a safety issue in enough cases to warrant further action. That's what those investigations are supposed to discover.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-27-2014, 08:00 PM
netboy's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 393
Thanks: 45
Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 581803
netboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond reputenetboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger1 View Post
It's not about programmed shutdowns, it's about whether a defect exists as a safety issue in enough cases to warrant further action. That's what those investigations are supposed to discover.
^^^This!

Unfortunately our vehicles are very complex machines and are built with little to no redundancy (not even close to a commercial airliner redundancy levels, for example). Many modern vehicles can have catastrophic failures in non-redundant parts that cause a complete shutdown of the power-train. But as Ranger1 noted, it's all about statistics. Failures such as those are expected in a very small group of vehicles, but if the ratio is substantial, it indicates a defect and that's what needs to be resolved.
__________________
Summit 4x4 Turbo-Diesel, Black / Jeep Brown.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-28-2014, 06:44 AM
Zhe Wiz's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Central NY - Ithaca
Posts: 644
Thanks: 164
Thanked 113 Times in 77 Posts
Rep Power: 16764
Zhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond reputeZhe Wiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

I've been under 1/8 tank at least twice before filling with no issue either time. Not sure I'll push it that far again until more is known about the problem.
__________________
Zhe Wiz

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-28-2014, 12:50 PM
GunninIt's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: California
Posts: 199
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 1758
GunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond reputeGunninIt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhe Wiz View Post
I've been under 1/8 tank at least twice before filling with no issue either time. Not sure I'll push it that far again until more is known about the problem.
Me as well.

Time to keep an eye on things.
__________________
2014 GC Limited CRD Bright White/Black LuxII ORAII RA4



The 3.6 in my JKUR is like 6 drunk hamsters banging on bongos. -dugedug
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-28-2014, 07:46 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kerrville, TX
Posts: 686
Thanks: 89
Thanked 108 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 2490
philbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond reputephilbytx has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

I've actually been down to the low fuel light twice without an issue.
__________________
Phil C.
2014 GC Overland 4x4, 3.0CRD, ATG, ORAII ("Smiffy")
2015 Lance 1685 Travel Trailer "#4"
2011 Kia Optima EX-L ("MC"
2003 BMW R1150RT "Darth"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-28-2014, 10:59 PM
Zybane's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 551
Thanks: 1
Thanked 54 Times in 37 Posts
Rep Power: 3055
Zybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond reputeZybane has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by KONE-DAWG View Post
I feel very fortunate that I escaped unharmed with only fried nerves.
While obviously no one wants their vehicle to shut off while driving, 99.9%+ of the time it isn't exactly as dire as people believe. Unless the person is an incredible weakling, you can still steer, and the brakes work fine.

People are very dramatic these days..
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zybane For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 08-29-2014, 05:46 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2005 2.8L KJ
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 34
Thanks: 4
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 1284
Ranger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond reputeRanger1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
While obviously no one wants their vehicle to shut off while driving, 99.9%+ of the time it isn't exactly as dire as people believe. Unless the person is an incredible weakling, you can still steer, and the brakes work fine.

People are very dramatic these days..
Yeah, they get real dramatic when it happens to them personally, LOL. Especially right after it happens.

Just how dramatic depends on the traffic around you and what those other drivers are doing when it happens. If it's on open road with no one around, it's not a big deal.

If it happens in rush hour with speeders whipping in and out of your lane to make their exit ramp, it can be nasty. They have no idea why you're suddenly slowing down. Your'e just in their way.

I've had it happen in 5:30 pm beltway traffic on the way home. It's nothing like you described. It happens quickly, with little time to react. The brakes do not work "fine" at all. They are hard as a brick and do not stop well without power assist. At first, it feels like you have lost all of your brakes and steering. Then it just feels like you lost most of it. Steering on a PS car with a dead engine is much harder than driving a car without PS.

Even at 200 lbs, I had to jam on the brake pedal with both feet and use the ebrake to avoid colliding with the car in front of me because so little braking power was available. It's not as good as a vehicle with manual brakes. You tend to remember such events vividly.

What really stands out in this kind of event is that you have no embedded driving skill to handle it. Drivers Ed training doesn't include unscheduled abrupt engine killing at Interstate speeds to learn how to safely recover. There just isn't any proficiency to fall back on. You're learning it live.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-29-2014, 07:27 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2012 WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 937
Thanks: 41
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 1232744
2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute2012 Summit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger1 View Post
Yeah, they get real dramatic when it happens to them personally, LOL. Especially right after it happens.

Just how dramatic depends on the traffic around you and what those other drivers are doing when it happens. If it's on open road with no one around, it's not a big deal.

If it happens in rush hour with speeders whipping in and out of your lane to make their exit ramp, it can be nasty. They have no idea why you're suddenly slowing down. Your'e just in their way.

I've had it happen in 5:30 pm beltway traffic on the way home. It's nothing like you described. It happens quickly, with little time to react. The brakes do not work "fine" at all. They are hard as a brick and do not stop well without power assist. At first, it feels like you have lost all of your brakes and steering. Then it just feels like you lost most of it. Steering on a PS car with a dead engine is much harder than driving a car without PS.

Even at 200 lbs, I had to jam on the brake pedal with both feet and use the ebrake to avoid colliding with the car in front of me because so little braking power was available. It's not as good as a vehicle with manual brakes. You tend to remember such events vividly.

What really stands out in this kind of event is that you have no embedded driving skill to handle it. Drivers Ed training doesn't include unscheduled abrupt engine killing at Interstate speeds to learn how to safely recover. There just isn't any proficiency to fall back on. You're learning it live.
Any skid marks on your briefs?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-30-2014, 09:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 39
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1749
Tinman2 is on a distinguished road
Re: WARNING Fuel Tank Pump Failure

Is this a pump failure or just a bad design of the system, i.e. pump sucking air as fuel sloshing around? If it is a bad pump design then I'd start looking for an aftermarket. Doubt Jeep will fix it correctly anytime soon. This doesn't surprised me at all, every one of my DC vehicles have modified fuel supply systems. The 01 Cummins camevwith a very poor Carter lift pump that would fail if you stared at it too long and the KJ CRD bad fuel filter head design (the 06 Cummins upgraded for extra hp, stock was OK). With two fuel pumps in the WK2 it's just more to go wrong.
__________________
HERS:'06 Liberty CRD - EHM with Provent, GDE eco, Brite Box, Stanadyne FM100, Cummins lift pump, XM/Sony sound, OME lift with 245/75/16s
HIS: '06 Dodge/Cummins - Play truck; a couple of fans, a proper cam shaft, and man handled electrons by EFILive
'01 Dodge/Cummins - Work truck; Lots of mods
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Urea Tank Failure candyman 2014+ Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 3.0 15 12-08-2013 08:47 PM
Gas pump stops before tank is full SoulStealer Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 9 10-13-2013 10:03 PM
PS Pump, Water pump,or something else? jmc2004 Troubleshooting/Problems 1 03-26-2013 09:08 PM
Check engine, tps dash warning light, oil pressure warning light seongmokim Troubleshooting/Problems 1 11-19-2012 12:17 PM
Power Steering Pump replaced but low coolant warning followed Joe's2001Laredo Troubleshooting/Problems 5 05-15-2011 10:30 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.