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  #169  
Old 06-11-2014, 08:19 PM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

How about replacing those puny Mopar hooks for a pair of these WK2 Recovery Point (front) | Chief Products . They are engineered to 13,500kg(29,800lb) MBS. Maybe also a 5mm steel bash plate WK2 Sump Protection Plate | Chief Products .
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  #170  
Old 06-11-2014, 10:30 PM
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Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
How about replacing those puny Mopar hooks for a pair of these WK2 Recovery Point (front) | Chief Products . They are engineered to 13,500kg(29,800lb) MBS. Maybe also a 5mm steel bash plate WK2 Sump Protection Plate | Chief Products .

I'm guessing BobT missed the fine print, because the tow hooks he's eluding to are not confirmed to fit USA models. More specifically it's states that they fit export models only. That being said, however, they do look very stout. I'm not that $270.94 dollars US(at current exchange rates, plus shipping) price is warranted.


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  #171  
Old 06-12-2014, 12:08 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
The Bluespark is a must buy.


As for the fog light surrounds, just like everyone else I did not like how the plasti-dip cobalt blue came out. So much so that I already painted them the same dark blue as the tow hooks.

Will post some pics tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
How about replacing those puny Mopar hooks for a pair of these WK2 Recovery Point (front) | Chief Products . They are engineered to 13,500kg(29,800lb) MBS. Maybe also a 5mm steel bash plate WK2 Sump Protection Plate | Chief Products .
Hm, interesting. Although, I think by the time you were to overcome the strength of using both the MOPAR points to recover, you would be approaching the strength limits of the forward section of the frame rails/connecting hardware anyway.

EDIT: Actually looking at the install instructions for those mounts they looked odd. The export models definitely have a different front frame mount setup. There apparently is only two mounting holes to the frame on those export models versus four per hook on the US. Here is the US hook design:



With the Chief setup, the actual hook does look robust. But the failure point would be the M10 bolts, not the hook. A zinc M10 bolt at the shaft has a shear strength of around 20 kN (4,500 lbs). It appears the 3rd bolt only holds the plates together, not a 3rd bolt to the frame rail. So the hook would shear from the frame in the ballpark of 10,000 pounds.

With the MOPAR hook having 4x M10 bolts to the frame, I'd actually say it would be stronger in a real pull. Not sure why the export WK2 doesn't have the extra two holes, maybe something do do with the bumper design? I'd assume there would be a worry about the 1" or so thick steel MOPAR hook bending, but I'd wager the bending strength of that steel hook would be far greater than the two M10 bolts holding the Chief to the frame rail.

Using a proper winching technique of both hooks on either setup, bar the car being encased in concrete, either would be more than enough strength.

EDIT: found a good pic of the MOPAR setup:



There are two lateral M10 bolts (one hidden on other side) and two in-line M10 bolts (one hidden rear), with a ~30mm or so bolt transferring the longitudinal loads of the hook shaft to the two rear frame bolts/bracket. It's actually a very clever design by the Jeep engineers to transfer the longitudinal loads efficiently to the frame rails and quite robust.

Question to the AUS guys, why was the Chief product designed? Was there actual failure noted on the MOPAR part? Where was the failure at if so? If no failures, was the MOPAR design deemed weak in some way and people just wanting something more robust? Just curious!

As for the sump protection plate, definitely want one! But the shipping is too high, would need a group buy or something to the US.
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  #172  
Old 06-12-2014, 01:51 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
Question to the AUS guys, why was the Chief product designed? Was there actual failure noted on the MOPAR part? Where was the failure at if so? If no failures, was the MOPAR design deemed weak in some way and people just wanting something more robust? Just curious!

As for the sump protection plate, definitely want one! But the shipping is too high, would need a group buy or something to the US.
Well, its a long story, but the short version goes that the EU front end requires pedestrian protection, so the front cross-member is angled back and padding installed. With this bend in the front cross-member, the 2 front bolts don't line up.

Originally the Oz cars were built on the US line, but with higher demand it got bumped to the EU line. So early GC models had the hooks, and people were ordering cars with the expectation of recovery rated hooks, but when they arrived, no hooks, and no way to recover a car from the front.

In the end, Jeep Australia had some hooks made up, but they would only fit on side of the car, so you couldn't have 2 hooks, and access was fiddly.

It seems the New Zealand cars still get built on the US line and can have the hooks, and sometimes Oz gets a few of these cars delivered here....

Anyway, I bought these Chief hooks.



Here's how one owner in Switzerland dealt with the problem, it shows the problem with alignment with the cross-member:

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  #173  
Old 06-12-2014, 09:12 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Ah, interesting!
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  #174  
Old 06-13-2014, 04:02 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
Hm, interesting. Although, I think by the time you were to overcome the strength of using both the MOPAR points to recover, you would be approaching the strength limits of the forward section of the frame rails/connecting hardware anyway.

EDIT: Actually looking at the install instructions for those mounts they looked odd. The export models definitely have a different front frame mount setup. There apparently is only two mounting holes to the frame on those export models versus four per hook on the US. Here is the US hook design:



With the Chief setup, the actual hook does look robust. But the failure point would be the M10 bolts, not the hook. A zinc M10 bolt at the shaft has a shear strength of around 20 kN (4,500 lbs). It appears the 3rd bolt only holds the plates together, not a 3rd bolt to the frame rail. So the hook would shear from the frame in the ballpark of 10,000 pounds.

With the MOPAR hook having 4x M10 bolts to the frame, I'd actually say it would be stronger in a real pull. Not sure why the export WK2 doesn't have the extra two holes, maybe something do do with the bumper design? I'd assume there would be a worry about the 1" or so thick steel MOPAR hook bending, but I'd wager the bending strength of that steel hook would be far greater than the two M10 bolts holding the Chief to the frame rail.



There are two lateral M10 bolts (one hidden on other side) and two in-line M10 bolts (one hidden rear), with a ~30mm or so bolt transferring the longitudinal loads of the hook shaft to the two rear frame bolts/bracket. It's actually a very clever design by the Jeep engineers to transfer the longitudinal loads efficiently to the frame rails and quite robust.

Question to the AUS guys, why was the Chief product designed? Was there actual failure noted on the MOPAR part? Where was the failure at if so? If no failures, was the MOPAR design deemed weak in some way and people just wanting something more robust? Just curious!

As for the sump protection plate, definitely want one! But the shipping is too high, would need a group buy or something to the US.
Ben0 has it correct. What they were sending us in Oz were certainly not trail rated. In fact, without the hooks, they technically didn't qualify for entry to the Aussie Jeep Jambo. But yes, I forgot that the Chief hooks probably won't fit US cars.

Regarding the M10 bolts, they are high tensile 10.9 grade (max tensile strength of 1040Mpa). They operate in high strength friction grip mode rather than shear. The load is transmitted to the body through friction between the members. If the bolts weren't torqued enough, the members would slip putting the bolts in shear and they would indeed fail as you suggest. Think of it as a prestressed setup. This is identical to how wheels are held on to the hub.
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  #175  
Old 07-09-2014, 11:41 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Since Zybane inspired me to modify my Limited, I thought I would provide a little information about my experience. As Zybane pointed out in early posts, a Limited has a different nose than a Summit. The Limited has a removable lower facia and the fairlead slot is exactly at the seam between the upper and lower facia. Also, as Zybane pointed out, there is a gap between the front of the winch mount and the facia. Zybane put the fairlead outside the facia and added spacers between the fairlead and the winch mount. Since I wanted the lower facia to still be removable, and to have the fairlead mounted directly to the winch plate, I put the fairlead inside the facia. It was a nice fit and required minimal trimming.

Below are a picture of the trimmed facia and the finished look.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010118.JPG (381.5 KB, 123 views)
File Type: jpg P1010127.JPG (424.5 KB, 118 views)
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  #176  
Old 07-10-2014, 09:26 PM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Nice job! Looks like the licence plate would cover it in any case unless you relocated it. I am partial to the full fair-lead showing, I think it looks good and most people are wowed that I have a winch in there lol.
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  #177  
Old 07-10-2014, 09:42 PM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
Nice job! Looks like the licence plate would cover it in any case unless you relocated it. I am partial to the full fair-lead showing, I think it looks good and most people are wowed that I have a winch in there lol.
Yeah, it is kind of cool to have the fairlead showing. But, it would have been difficult to do and keep the lower facia removable. As it is, it is a stealth winch. You cannot see it is there.

I am considering cutting a 3 inch diameter hole in the license for the prolink to stick out, but that might look kind of goofy.
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  #178  
Old 07-30-2014, 07:57 PM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Winch looks good, who's winch mount did you use?
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  #179  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:05 AM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

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Originally Posted by TinMan.KC View Post
Winch looks good, who's winch mount did you use?
Rocky Road Outfitters.

Below are some photos of the winch mount installed with, and without, the winch. Note that picture 2 has the prerunner plat installed as well.

(You don't have to be crazy to dismantle the front end of your new Grand Cherokee, but it helps.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010054.JPG (432.6 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg P1010073.JPG (438.0 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg P1010090.JPG (413.1 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg P1010094.JPG (420.7 KB, 54 views)
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:36 PM
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Re: Zybane's "Arctic" Diesel Build

Thanks for the extra pic's.. how difficult to pull the front facia?
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