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  #37  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:55 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim@NCTSLLC View Post
Well, he used your ideology of the resistor for dual filament bulb functionality, from what I see no one else was making a "harness" to perform the functions that were achieved.

So, in that realm, yes he did copy your idea, he probably saw one of yours and simply wanted to make one for himself to save a few bucks at first. Your e-mails may show that.

This is where the realm of IP comes into play. Regardless of how he is doing it, the "functions" that are achieved are the same. If you were the first, then you have an argument under IP rights.

Accusatory? Yes, he copied something you were doing. Accusations are a basis for any court proceedings, without them, we would have no need for court.

Threatening? Only in the sense that you are "threatening" legal action.

Slanderous? I don't think so, your not out bad mouthing him, calling him a crook, making false accusations, Slander is a real stretch here, one your father should be well versed on as a Lawyer.

I would have no more direct contact, let your attorney handle it from here on out.

It would do well to perform some research and document when you made this "product" available, and when he made his available. This would help in establishing history and validity of your claims.

Depending on the exact wording you used in your conversations with him regarding producing them, there could be some legal bias toward having made a claim toward a copyrightable product and IP rights to the ideology behind the creation of it.

Best of luck, keep us posted as to the outcome.

I would look at how his is made, materials and methods, and I would make sure mine was better. I would then start selling them on E-Bay and carefully word in the ad that you are the creator of the idea and that yours is the original design (don't refer to his as a knock off or a copy).

I am not sure how yours is made, I make harnesses for my turbo systems and the iEMS3, and I go to lengths to make them as OEM appearing as possible.

One thing I do, is that I never crimp down the end of convoluted tubing on the wiring with a ty-rap, that looks cheesy (I see he does that). I use a very special electrical tape from Germany that is a synthetic material that is "fuzzy" almost like cloth, it is self vulcanizing, and when applied looks like a factory harness, is waterproof, and just looks professional. It also does not get "greasy" or "gooey" like vinyl electrical tape does, and it is designed for a harsh automotive environement.

I would be happy to PM you the name of it (I don't want my competition to know what I use), and I am trying to find a domestic supplier for it in lieu of improting it here to the states.
To bring you a little bit more up to speed, here's exactly what happened:

At first, he was interested in buying a harness. He said he had wired his fogs up, but they didn't function the same as mine (i.e. running lights AND brakes/turns - his did brakes/turns ONLY). When I told him the price, he was moderately turned off.

He then re-contacted me, saying he had a background in the 12V industry (car alarms, stereo's, etc), and asked if I would be kind enough to give him instructions on how to make the harness. I told him I was uncomfortable with this idea.

He then PROMISED me that he would not duplicate the harness for resale, it would be only for himself and maybe a local friend or two.

I then reluctantly agreed, and gave him detailed instructions on how to make the harness, including suppliers for all the necessary components. The only thing I didn't give him was the supplier or source for the rear fog light connectors.

He contacted me about two weeks later, saying he was working on a buddy's 07 jeep, which did not already have the rear fog connectors present (as 08's do). He requested that I tell him where to get the connector.

I asked if he was attempting to reproduce my harnesses and he re-confirmed that he indeed wasn't. So I again provided him with the info (I know, I'm an idiot!)

This monday, a fellow member sent me a link to his ebay listing. This is number 4.


The rest is just the correspondence that has occurred since monday and the high points are highlighted in earlier posts in this thread.

SOOO, do I still have a leg to stand on? I can't exactly say his harness is inferior, as he is using the EXACT same components I am using. He may be using different vendors but I gave him links to my sources, so I'm reasonably confident he is using them...

Based on his comments, I really doubt he has a lawyer. I think I am going to take the next step with my father.

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  #38  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:09 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LipschitzWrath View Post

At first, he was interested in buying a harness. He said he had wired his fogs up, but they didn't function the same as mine (i.e. running lights AND brakes/turns - his did brakes/turns ONLY). When I told him the price, he was moderately turned off.

He then re-contacted me, saying he had a background in the 12V industry (car alarms, stereo's, etc), and asked if I would be kind enough to give him instructions on how to make the harness. I told him I was uncomfortable with this idea.

He then PROMISED me that he would not duplicate the harness for resale, it would be only for himself and maybe a local friend or two.

I then reluctantly agreed, and gave him detailed instructions on how to make the harness, including suppliers for all the necessary components. The only thing I didn't give him was the supplier or source for the rear fog light connectors.

He contacted me about two weeks later, saying he was working on a buddy's 07 jeep, which did not already have the rear fog connectors present (as 08's do). He requested that I tell him where to get the connector.

I asked if he was attempting to reproduce my harnesses and he re-confirmed that he indeed wasn't. So I again provided him with the info (I know, I'm an idiot!)

SOOO, do I still have a leg to stand on? I can't exactly say his harness is inferior, as he is using the EXACT same components I am using. He may be using different vendors but I gave him links to my sources, so I'm reasonably confident he is using them...

Based on his comments, I really doubt he has a lawyer. I think I am going to take the next step with my father.
Well, first off, I am not a lawyer, so verify the points I make with an attorney and follow his/her advice.

There are several things that stand out in the conversation.

He obviously was aware of you and your product when he contacted you when he could not get his to work the same.

When you told him you were uncomfortable providing the information, he promised it was for his or local use only, not for commercial resale.

Then when confronted the second time regarding the connector, he re-confirmed the initial promise not to compete.

So I think you have several things in your favor, he clearly admits in his ad on e-bay that it incorporates special technology for it to function properly. You have clear proof of how he got that technology.

He made multiple promises not to go commercial yet he has, so he has broken those promises he gave in exchange for the information.

These things alone might be enough to get E-Bay to kick his ads.

There are two ways to fight it, one is to go the legal route, the other is to hit him where it hurts with a better product at a lower cost clearly letting the buyer know yours is the original, and the product that pioneered the special technology that allow it to work.
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:12 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

As long as you have those emails of him saying he wouldnt resell, for lack of a better term, you have him by the balls. IMO.
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  #40  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:04 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
As long as you have those emails of him saying he wouldnt resell, for lack of a better term, you have him by the balls. IMO.
As I said, I saved EVERY single email that he ever sent me. And I printed them off today in the event the entire server at work crashes, LOL. I don't know how to approach ebay other than to report a listing. As I learned today, all u get if you do that is an automated reply. I need to speak to a human being to tell them the entire story.
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  #41  
Old 01-18-2010, 06:40 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

Just got tipped off by one of the mods that our good friend is a member here and is browsing my threads. Probably here trying to steal some other ideas. He's on the red site, too. Here's a direct quote from his signature: "Rear Fog Light Mod with my own custom harnesses"

Yeah, I remember when you didn't have the fog light mods on your jeep. Then you pumped me for information and shortly after, lo and behold, he's got his own "custom" harnesses on his Jeep.

I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but the guy is also a cop. I guess the higher standards that police are held to don't apply in their personal lives...
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  #42  
Old 01-18-2010, 06:57 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

wow that's a low blow that he is a cop putting a bad name to cops ...

sorry to hear bro ...
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  #43  
Old 01-18-2010, 08:19 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

your buddy has another listed and has sold quite a few of these.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-2010, 10:29 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

what a piece of work.......
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  #45  
Old 01-18-2010, 10:30 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

the guy that is.....LOL
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  #46  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:41 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

It just keeps getting better and better! Thanks to a member for the heads up. Read about how he "discovered" how to do this...

http://taillightsolutions.com/

Secret's out. I'm on ebay now, too. This guy is a real piece of work. I am so pissed at myself for telling him all this. I think I'm done playing this game. His little website offers every service I ever did for these Jeeps. That's why he was crawling my threads. H-O-M-O. After I sell these remaining harnesses, I think I am gonna be done forever with whole wiring for other people business. I'M OUT!!!
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  #47  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:11 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

Disgusting..
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  #48  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:30 PM
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Re: Rear fog harness knock off!

That just plain sucks!

I went through a very similar thing with the fishing jigs that I've been pouring and tying for years. Made the mistake of posting some pics and writeups on a web forum and had a few guys pick my brains for weeks on end. Before I knew it, they were selling my jigs online and charging silly high rates. Now I don't make jigs for profit and give them away to friends but it still sucks to see a few folks selling them for profit and claiming they were the result of many years of research and countless dollars spent on design.

Truth is most humans suck and the percentage of folks that still have any sense of character and class are dwindling with each passing day.
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