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  #37  
Old 05-10-2010, 08:18 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

oh that abrupt's air flow thing was referring to the ported throttle body convo haha sorry man so many things going on with the different topics in this thread...im really sorry about the thread jack to the op! but some useful info is definitely coming out

to add to the venturi thing: for my first test application, my tacoma, im going to try to make a 4" first section to have a decent size filter on it and run that into the section of tubing we are now discussing. im hoping to get the venturi effect from the two tubes but also hoping for some pressure build up with the first section being bigger going into a smaller diameter, so when the throttle body opens up a little the air wants to go in and the cylinder vacuum pulls well.
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2010, 08:21 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

that should make a huge difference ...

but this go for the OP

IMHO and from what has been posted here don't use PVC or any of that crap stick with Al tubing
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  #39  
Old 05-10-2010, 08:26 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
"Q: Why does AEM use aluminum for its intake piping?
A: Our Chief Engineer John Concialdi provides an explanation of the difference between Aluminum vs. Steel vs. Plastic in inlet piping:

The issue of heat absorption with an intake system has a degree of validity, however we have found that too much emphasis is placed on material selection, instead of the real issue of tuning the system. Our systems feature a unique shape and diameter because this is what we found to make the most useable torque and horsepower for each individual application in testing. However, for the purposes of this discussion, we will limit it to why we choose to make our systems from aluminum and the effects of heat absorption on all materials. If you do not wish to review all of this information right now, a quick synopsis of this discussion is outlined in the following bullet points, with complete topic discussions below:

We use aluminum to eliminate any chance of the system rusting, and it's lighter than steel
We limit our use of plastic because this material absorbs some of the sound energy we work to create in the inlet duct
Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power
The rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material

We use aluminum—or a combination of aluminum and plastic plenums for throttle-body-injected applications that require a special plenum—for every intake we produce. This eliminates any chance of rust occurring on the inside of the inlet pipe. We have seen chrome-plated steel systems whose inner diameter became rusted over time, causing flakes of rust to travel along the inlet path. We also choose aluminum because of its lightweight properties. Heavier components place higher loads on the brackets they are attached to—or even worse, to the pipes they are attached to. We combine our lightweight aluminum design with a flexible coupling device we call a soft mount that connects the intake system to the body of the vehicle. In addition to the soft mount, we use doublers at the point where the mounting bracket is welded to the pipe for additional strength.

We limit our use of plastic because this material absorbs some of the sound energy we work to create in the inlet duct. Although we use the best plastic material for our plenums, it is still not as resilient and does not retain the visual appeal of aluminum over long-term use. Because we have to use plastic on throttle body applications, we take extra precautions to ensure that the aluminum retaining ring that attaches to the throttle body is anchored securely into the plastic plenum; this is done by making an interlocking mechanical link between the plastic and aluminum.

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel, or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power. We have found that the tuning of the pipe, in addition to providing the coolest inlet air source, are the keys to making useable power. We perform engine inlet-air-temp studies when developing each application to determine the coolest location for sourcing inlet air. In addition to this, we determine the safest location for the inlet source to protect it from highly dusty conditions and water. To this end, we provide a stainless-steel heat shield to help minimize heat soak into the inlet area, as well as to provide protection from dust, dirt and mud.

At light throttle opening, air speed and airflow at the inlet system are relatively low. The high residence time of air in the inlet while at low-throttle settings will increase inlet charge temps when materials with high thermal conductivity are used. Typically, when someone is at light throttle they are not asking the engine to make power. Most likely, fuel economy is the issue.

When the throttle is fully opened however, air speed and airflow increase considerably. Typically, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.

Basically, the rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material. We hope that this helps to clear up the issues of material heat absorption in intake systems."

So...pretty much what that is saying is this......the amount of time that charge air spends in the iping...1/10th of a second....no heat is gonna be transferred to the air. Also....I am a metallurgist and work in the aluminum industry. The time it would take to heat the entire piping up while it is being cooled by charge of air moving through it is pretty crazy. Youd pretty much have to be idling for days. there are also ways to combat any heat soak that many "think" occur...or have "read" that occur. There are plenty of simple spray on coatings for that. And please do not use PVC piping.......leave that to the sewer guys. PVC has a very low melt point...which means over time it will deform and become brittle...it is not made to withstand any heat...especially engine temps. Not to mention the TOXIC fumes it releases when heated........
good info scott.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:38 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Regarding Scott's post - Newton's Law of Cooling could be used to figure out how much the air heats up in passing through an aluminum intake. As much as I'd like to work it out for everyone, I'm about mathed out for the time being haha.


Newton's Law of Cooling states that the hotter an object is, the faster it cools. More precisely, the rate of cooling is proportional to the temperature difference between an object and its surroundings. This word statement leads to the classic equation of exponential decline over time that applies to many phenomena in science and engineering, including the discharge of a capacitor and the decay in radioactivity.
Newton's Law of Cooling is useful when studying water heating because it can tell us how fast the hot water in pipes cools off, and also tells us how fast a water heater cools down if you turn off the breaker when you go on vacation.
The basic equation for Newton's Law of Cooling is:
T(t) = TA + (TH-TA) e-kt where
T(t) = Temperature at time t
TA = Ambient temperature (temp of surroundings)
TH = Temperature of hot object at time 0
k = positive constant
t = time
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  #41  
Old 05-10-2010, 10:21 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
thee only problem with the Flyin Ryan TB is the bore isnt increased all the way through the TB...so you still have a bottle neck at the blade. Get a Fastman with increased bore and larger blade to match. Do math on that one......

also...do a little research on the temp differences between aluminum and plastic......its almost funny

So if I get a fastman tb, should I get a tb spacer too?
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  #42  
Old 05-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

dont waste your money on a throttle body spacer. they are great paper weights and nothing else! tb spacers are used for carb engines to atomize the a/f mixture before entering the cylinder. engines now are fuel injected so why would you need a tb spacer....to atomize the air?? doesnt make sense and will save you the 100 bucks for other mods
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  #43  
Old 05-10-2010, 11:37 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

^^^^^yep....uh huh...LOL
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:43 AM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Ok i really like that you agree with me on a lot of things lol but was the above one sarcasm or are you really agreeing? haha
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:08 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcl06 View Post
∏3˛=~28.26in˛ ∏2˛=~12.56in˛
fyi, a=(∏/4)d˛=∏r˛
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  #46  
Old 05-11-2010, 01:46 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

did a custom CAI for my jeep srt8 for less than $100. took me less than an hour to do with parts bought from o'reillys
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:26 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08pretaco View Post
Ok i really like that you agree with me on a lot of things lol but was the above one sarcasm or are you really agreeing? haha

sorry...I was agreeing
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:28 PM
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Re: Homemade CAI for 3.7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTJeffC View Post
fyi, a=(∏/4)d˛=∏r˛
Figures I'd make a mistake on the simplest equations...r=d/2 duhh haha. Thanks
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