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  #13  
Old 02-21-2012, 02:41 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Drew, your are probably right with your vehicle, Those of us that have QDII have 3 electronic limited slip differentials, front rear and center, while your 3.7 has none. A better fluid should provide quieter operation for the ELSD's and better limited slip performance, plus increased MPG.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

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Originally Posted by dmsfun View Post
plus increased MPG.
I would have to see this in the real world to believe it. I agree, with the cost argument, and could buy into the quieter ELSD operation (though I do not believe I have ever heard my ELSD clutches engage from inside the vehicle...), but I can't see the quality of axle fluid having any meaningful impact on MPGs...I hope someone can prove me wrong, as with the amount of driving I do this would amount to a substantial savings!

As long as it is the correct spec (synthetic, API-GL5 with correct viscosity) the difference between Fluid A and Fluid X is going to make on fuel consumption, I believe, would be trivial at best.

With all of these manufacturers trying to increase MPG to meet emissions standards, bragging rights, and selling features I would imagine they would all specify this better (and often cheaper) fluid from the start! Come on, they even specify where the roof rack should be placed for optimal fuel efficiency, but would hold out on a diff fluid that has a substantial impact? Doesn't sound right to me.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:40 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.lee.baugh View Post
I would have to see this in the real world to believe it. I agree, with the cost argument, and could buy into the quieter ELSD operation (though I do not believe I have ever heard my ELSD clutches engage from inside the vehicle...), but I can't see the quality of axle fluid having any meaningful impact on MPGs...I hope someone can prove me wrong, as with the amount of driving I do this would amount to a substantial savings!

As long as it is the correct spec (synthetic, API-GL5 with correct viscosity) the difference between Fluid A and Fluid X is going to make on fuel consumption, I believe, would be trivial at best.

With all of these manufacturers trying to increase MPG to meet emissions standards, bragging rights, and selling features I would imagine they would all specify this better (and often cheaper) fluid from the start! Come on, they even specify where the roof rack should be placed for optimal fuel efficiency, but would hold out on a diff fluid that has a substantial impact? Doesn't sound right to me.

you are right, i would love to see actual proof to back the claim of MPG gains from the dif fluid LOL
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:11 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfun View Post
Drew, your are probably right with your vehicle, Those of us that have QDII have 3 electronic limited slip differentials, front rear and center, while your 3.7 has none. A better fluid should provide quieter operation for the ELSD's and better limited slip performance, plus increased MPG.
Well, I really wasn't speaking totally about my current WK (only about 65K on it now) except to comment on recent oil purchases. I've had two previous ELSD vehicles prior as well as a bunch of other makes. Usually do about 200k+ miles on a vehicle before it goes away, and I honestly cannot tell you what "brand" of anything went in for fluids other than recently....
But really it comes down to whatever puts a big smile on your face at the end of the day. So, it's all good.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

If you guys are looking for both better MPG's and quieter operation out of gear oil, especially 75-140 fluid, you probably won't have to much luck. 75-140 fluid is thick, even when warm it's thick. "Brand" of 75-140 I can't imagine there would be a noticeable difference in MPG's

Just thinking out loud:
Common sense would suggest a thinner fluid would give better MPG's. Thicker fluid will make things operate quieter. Anyone ever try running a 75-85 or 75-90? For example: Toyota specs 75-85 in their LSD's...Most yota guys run 75-90. Even if it did provide equal protection with better MPG's in the Jeep, I'd imagine the trade off would be more frequent fluid changes....which kinda defeats the purpose of better mpg's...
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
If you guys are looking for both better MPG's and quieter operation out of gear oil, especially 75-140 fluid, you probably won't have to much luck. 75-140 fluid is thick, even when warm it's thick. "Brand" of 75-140 I can't imagine there would be a noticeable difference in MPG's

Just thinking out loud:
Common sense would suggest a thinner fluid would give better MPG's. Thicker fluid will make things operate quieter. Anyone ever try running a 75-85 or 75-90? For example: Toyota specs 75-85 in their LSD's...Most yota guys run 75-90. Even if it did provide equal protection with better MPG's in the Jeep, I'd imagine the trade off would be more frequent fluid changes....which kinda defeats the purpose of better mpg's...
2011+ call for 75w/85 so else there is huge difference I dont think it would hurt anything. Then again I dont know.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2012, 09:01 AM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

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Originally Posted by SvenskaJeepGuy View Post
you are right, i would love to see actual proof to back the claim of MPG gains from the dif fluid LOL

The pour point is lower on Amsoil, and the viscosity favorable in cold winter temps so no doubt it will drag less = better mpg, that is, until the fluid is up to operating temps, which takes some time.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Please note, I'm referrng only to the QDII, where AWD is always engaged and has 2 ELS diff's. The lesser WK models would not be expected to make much of a difference. I'll post if there is any mpg advantage with Amsoil; 3 long road trips coming up in the next 4 weeks. RIght now I am on Mopar fluid, 14k, and when I floor it there is some brief wheelspin. WIth the fresh tune up, etc.. it runs fantastic, better than ever now, and never spun at all before this (yay) If that goes away with Amsoil, the LSD's are working better
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:26 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

It wont make any difference....
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:54 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Sure, in a purely theoretical context, a lower pour point would increase fuel efficiency. However, we live in a practical world! The difference between an amsoil 75w140 and any other brand's 75w140 in pour point would have no (noticeable) impact on fuel economy.

There are people (that aren't hired by the oil manufacturers) that do this sort of research and publish the results in peer-reviewed scientific journals (not to a manufacturer's personal website with no review whatsoever).

Like this research group:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...67892298800588

Who finds you have to drop an entire SAE viscosity of gear oil to get an average increase of .4% in your MPG! Since all 75W140 weight oils are graded in the same SAE range the minor fluctuation between brand manufacturers would safely be below .4% increase in MPG, as a starting estimate. So you drop to a 90, and you gain .4% on average, and perhaps ruin your diff.

Change your gear oil to another manufacturer because you like the colour, the advertising, the smell, to save some money, to not have to buy a friction modifier, or any other reason you want - but you will not notice a difference in MPGs (unless you are measuring to .1% accuracy).

This, of course, holds true regardless of whether you have an ELSD or not in one/both axles. Unless the clutches are engaging the fluids are subject to the same laws of physics as a regular non-limited slip and any benefit in pour point would not have an impact.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.lee.baugh View Post
Sure, in a purely theoretical context, a lower pour point would increase fuel efficiency. However, we live in a practical world! The difference between an amsoil 75w140 and any other brand's 75w140 in pour point would have no (noticeable) impact on fuel economy.

There are people (that aren't hired by the oil manufacturers) that do this sort of research and publish the results in peer-reviewed scientific journals (not to a manufacturer's personal website with no review whatsoever).

Like this research group:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...67892298800588

Who finds you have to drop an entire SAE viscosity of gear oil to get an average increase of .4% in your MPG! Since all 75W140 weight oils are graded in the same SAE range the minor fluctuation between brand manufacturers would safely be below .4% increase in MPG, as a starting estimate. So you drop to a 90, and you gain .4% on average, and perhaps ruin your diff.

Change your gear oil to another manufacturer because you like the colour, the advertising, the smell, to save some money, to not have to buy a friction modifier, or any other reason you want - but you will not notice a difference in MPGs (unless you are measuring to .1% accuracy).

This, of course, holds true regardless of whether you have an ELSD or not in one/both axles. Unless the clutches are engaging the fluids are subject to the same laws of physics as a regular non-limited slip and any benefit in pour point would not have an impact.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: Valvoline gear oil

First of all, any scientist knows you cannot compare apples to oranges in scientific measurements. The publication referenced above was from studies in Germany done back in 1998 and the conclusions were likely based on an open diff on a RWD vehicle, (German cars are almost all all RWD), not an full time AWD vehicle with 2 ELSD's, plus the testing was done well before Mercedes developed the QDII.
I also have an MS in Physics, and ran a lab the physical characterization lab at Amoco (now BP) research using these tests, and it is under cold temps where there is a noticable difference in viscosity, where there is more resistance to the internal mechanisms. That is why my AMD WK does not coast as well when you let off the accellerator under cold temps, as it does when it is warmed. Experimental proof in my AWD vehicle is the only way to determine this, and what I will find out, between Amsoil and Mopar fluids. If there is or is not any diiffernce, I will report the results, with coasting, and mpg both under cold operation, and fully warmed.
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