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  #109  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:41 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

explain nwhy some of the 05-07 guys need relays on the fogs and some dont?
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  #110  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:48 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
explain nwhy some of the 05-07 guys need relays on the fogs and some dont?
Ummm, I'm not sure that some do and some don't. Did someone tell you that some needed relays and others didn't? Or do we have documented cases of people who tried it without relays and could ONLY get it to work by using relays? Sometimes, using relays will mask other problems. For example, say you have a bad ground. The ground isn't capable of supporting 5 amps (i.e. HID lights) but it is capable of supporting 50 mA (i.e. the coil of a relay). In this case, one might be inclined to say that a relay is required, when in reality, all that is needed is a better ground.

According to wkjeeps.com, all WK jeeps from 2005-2010 have the same integrated power module, meaning that all of them have a fused battery output feeding into an onboard relay. Unless there is something I am unaware of, I don't believe there would ever be a NEED to relay the fogs on a WK.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of low beams, Scott?
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  #111  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:55 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

no....there are owners here that have no relay on the fogs and some that had flickering on the fogs and had to install a relay.......
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  #112  
Old 09-21-2009, 01:06 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
no....there are owners here that have no relay on the fogs and some that had flickering on the fogs and had to install a relay.......
I'm not calling you a liar Scott but flickering seems like the least likely of all problems to have on the fogs. The jeeps have an onboard relay for the fogs already. Throwing another relay on top of that does absolutely nothing for you. All it does is reduce the load on the onboard relay. But that relay was meant to handle at least 45W x 2 with stock 9145 halogen bulbs. HID's draw, at most, 35W x 2, not to mention the superior efficiency of HID's, further widening this gap.

The computer has no control over the fog lights other than to turn them on and off (unlike the low beams). Because the output is relayed, the computer cannot read how much power is going to the lights, therefore flickering (which is a result of the computer seeing abnormal current draw) seems extremely unlikely.

I would love to dissect one of these cases. I never had a relay on my '98 grand cherokee fogs because it, too, had an onboard fog light relay. I understand the WK is a different beast, but I imagine the circuit is pretty close to identical. It just doesn't add up.
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  #113  
Old 09-21-2009, 01:15 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

yes it is def wierd. some wk owners need a relay for the fogs. i can't remember who exactly but some did need them for their fogs. i have an 08 3.7 and had no issues
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  #114  
Old 09-21-2009, 01:24 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

there are several that needed relays....maybe Tony(tcmglx) can chime in with who it is....I know Lo.7 was one and he has an 06
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  #115  
Old 09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

Great discussion, I'm still confused on how grounding the HID's to the battery is not the best way.... Your going back to the source.... This is much better than any chasis ground, EVEN though chassis ground should be the same as the battery.

Also the battery acts like a big capacitor in a sense that voltage fluctuations are minimized.. screw it i'll run 2 grounds.....then all will be well.
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  #116  
Old 09-21-2009, 04:38 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

Where is your battery grounded...? The chassis. If the chassis is a good enough ground for your battery then it surely is a good enough ground for a relay.
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  #117  
Old 09-21-2009, 04:40 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

I'm willing to bet over half of the problems that occur with people having HID "issues" are a grounding location that was never sanded down. A ground needs to be attached to BARE metal, not painted metal.
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  #118  
Old 09-21-2009, 07:05 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

the problem I think with connecting to the battery ground is it adds another link to the grounding.......my theory
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  #119  
Old 09-21-2009, 07:12 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I'm willing to bet over half of the problems that occur with people having HID "issues" are a grounding location that was never sanded down. A ground needs to be attached to BARE metal, not painted metal.
Word. Bad grounds are oftentimes the trickiest problems to diagnose. And why is that? It is probably the first thing that everyone takes for granted when they have problems...

"You got a good ground?"

"Oh, sure, no problems there!"

Uh-huh. An electrical circuit is just that - it's a circuit. If it isn't a complete circuit, it don't work. You wouldn't use a wire from the battery that was too small or a wire that is big enough but is half cut thru with only a few wire strands left, would you? Same deal with a bad ground.

And for the guy who was asking, yes, there is no better ground than directly to the battery. The problem is that the battery is often the least convenient of all locations to ground. Or, at least, there's a half dozen other locations that are more convenient. And in reference to grounding the battery to the chassis, that's a misleading statement.

Again, it's for convenience. They ground to the chassis so that you can ground everything else to the chassis, thus completing the circuit. For a 100% guaranteed trouble-free wiring setup in a vehicle, EVERY SINGLE CIRCUIT WOULD BE GROUNDED DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY. Boy, that would be a mess, wouldn't it?
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  #120  
Old 09-21-2009, 08:33 PM
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Re: XenonDepot Xtreme HID's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
the problem I think with connecting to the battery ground is it adds another link to the grounding.......my theory
There's no issue with that.

I'm just trying to clarify that there is no difference between grounding to the battery and grounding to the chassis -- THE BATTERY IS GROUNDED TO THE CHASSIS! When grounding back to the battery you're simply using the battery/terminal post as a distribution point for grounding (completing the circuit).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LipschitzWrath View Post
Word. Bad grounds are oftentimes the trickiest problems to diagnose. And why is that? It is probably the first thing that everyone takes for granted when they have problems...

"You got a good ground?"

"Oh, sure, no problems there!"
haha, I got this all the time when I browsed car audio forums.

------

I'm just trying to clarify that there is no difference between grounding to the battery and grounding to the chassis -- THE BATTERY IS GROUNDED TO THE CHASSIS! When grounding back to the battery you're simply using the battery/terminal post as a distribution point for grounding (completing the circuit). If you ground to the battery post or the chassis where the ground from the battery post is - there is absolutely no difference!

Find a solid piece of the chassis, sand it down to bare metal (<-- emphasizing this), bolt or screw the wire termination tightly to this newly made ground = no problems!
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