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  #49  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:38 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

I could be wrong, but every aftermarket 3.5 set Ive seen already have capacitors on them going to the tweeters.....so bass blockers seem like an overkill/waste of money to me

I personally have never seen a 2 way or higher speaker without a capacitor running to the tweeter......
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:48 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

yea the tweeters have a x-over, but the 3.5's are receiving the same signals as the 6x9's. and the low frequencies will blow the 3.5's quick. now thats on a non BA system. the ba system i am starting to believe that the amp does cross out the bass to the 3.5's but not 100% sure.
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  #51  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

I personally have NEVER seen a blown 3.5 running off factory amps.....

Ive seen a fair share of tweeters go, but never a 3.5 off of 15 to 25 stock watts......

Im not a fan of paying 10+ dollars for bass blockers to put on 20 dollar speakers lol

I recently purchased some 3.5 HORN TWEETERS for my dash and love it! 19 bucks!

I have the treble turned to -4 and they still scream off of my factory amp!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:04 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

but then again......I dont ride around cranking dirty bass at +30 volume all day

and by dirty, I mean raising the bass levels above +5 giving distortion

I use gain control on my sub amp to increase bass

I think blown speakers alot of time are because of improper EQ'ing/elevated amp gains
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:36 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

well there are allot of peoples dash speakers that have blown because of this. it's never wise to have midbass and lower going to a 3.5" speaker. it has nothing to do with "dirty bass" I could easily have my factory 3.5" popping just with some good drum licks. that is why you want to cross them out of the 3.5's the 6x9's should handle all of the lower frequencies. it's not just saying well why spend money on some blockers for some $20 speakers. by removing the bass from them they will have much less distortion and play cleaner. and by the way blockers only cost around $6 and my 3.5" kappa's cost $75 so I think it is well worth it.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:53 AM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

I guess we will continue to agree to disagree

my logic is that if it was so terrible to have some bass going to a 3.5, why do these stereo designers/engineers even design a 3.5 woofer at all?

based on your bass blocker theory, why not have only a tweeter in there if all you genuinely wanted was high frequencies?

I feel the 3.5 woofers blow because of over wattage and/or poor settings IMHO

all I was eluding to earlier was that I personally have never seen a 3.5 woofer blow running off of a factory 15-25 watts per channel amp

in all reality though, if you genuinely were chasing after high quality/crisp/clean front stage audio......you would eliminate the silly 3.5s entirely and install a couple of quality 6.5 component sets with separate/strategically placed tweeters.....thats why good 3.5s are hard to find in the first place now a days!!.....its not a great compliment for true audiophiles!!!

PS.....$75 for some discontinued 3.5s?? Seems steep to me!
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:29 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

yea I guess we won't see eye to eye on this one. but the deal is that my 3.5's don't just receive very high frequencies. I have them crossed over at around 800hz. this allows vocals and high bass through, which brings the front stage higher up. I never said not to have some bass frequencies ran through them. just the lower ones have to be removed because they were never manufactured to handle that. Each speaker has a purpose a 3.5 with a tweeter works great. yes you can remove the 3.5 and put a separate tweeter but that was never the discussion. people were asking about just replacing the 3.5" in the dash for a better sound without changing anything else. so adding amps, or removing everything and putting in components was never the case. we could talk about a hundred different ways to do a install and there would be a hundred different opinions on how to do it. As for you not thinking that a factory radio can blow the 3.5", I have had at least 4 people here that have contacted me about putting in new dash speakers because there's have blown, just from the radio. and as for my infinity's the reason I bought the discontinued ones was so they would match my other speakers in my system, and I don't think $75 is too much for a quality speaker. if you want to talk about sound quality you will never achieve it with a pair of $20 horns in the dash. but thats what you like, and that's why they make different speakers, because what sounds good to one person may not to another.


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Old 03-01-2011, 12:30 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

Have to agree with drafty here, you should have cross overs on your 3.5's simply because they can't handle those low bass notes. The 3.5's will give a great range of sound in the dash, not just the highs like your suggesting with the tweeters. Further more they make a lot of cross over units, to you can adjust all your speakers before the RCA's go into the amp.

Also, when installing components with a separate tweeter, you should keep the tweeter within 6-9" of the speaker otherwise it throws off the full range of sound coming from that area and just will not sound good.

I do agree that your most likely not going to see a 3.5" speaker pop from running it off a factory amp at 15-25 watts, but at the same time your stereo is not going be as loud as if you have an after market amp pushing 125 watts per channel. Nor will it sound as clean.

In the end it's really up to each persons preference. For me, I have done and seen many car stereos and honestly believe that its more than worth the few dollars to put in the crossovers. Just my .02 though.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:07 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

I believe you might be taking this the wrong way.....not bashing here....simply stating that I dont agree with this

ultimately, its just another opinion that hopefully a reader of this thread can see both sides of and then make their own educated decision on

bass blockers on a 3.5" dash speaker running off of a head unit or factory amp is overkill IMHO.......99.9% of aftermarket 3.5" speakers ALREADY have caps running to the tweeter to cut off unwanted bass notes....

when these people you say are contacting you of "blown" dash speakers......are you confirming its the woofer or the tweeter?

if people are blowing the woofer off 15 or so watts, I still stand by the fact that they may have the polarity reversed or may have their settings adjusted wrong giving too much distortion at high volumes

cmon, lets be honest here.....the majority of people on these non-audio forums can throw in some 30 to 40 dollar 3.5s AS IS (polk, BA, Kenwood, JL, etc etc) that will rival your ~100 dollar 3.5s

Im also talking about standard 10-50 watt 3.5s here.......not someone wanting to run high power demanding 3.5s in a competition system rated at 200 watts (like a set of 400 dollar Critical Mass 3.5s!)

all in all, I say spend the 50+ dollars elsewhere in the system.

3.5s can only do SO much with sub 30 watts bro

the only true benefit of your Kappas is they are rated at 2 Ohms to make the best of the factory amp sysytems in todays vehicles.....

Also, lets not forget that ALOT of these Jeep people you are giving advice to also have a UConnect/Bluetooth system in their vehicles that run ENTIRELY off of the 3.5" dash speakers......when you start capping the frequencies to the dash, the output suffers dramatically.......I dont know about you, but the people I talk to have bass in their voice and arent always high pitch screaming like the lead singer of AC/DC

but once again, this is all simply my opinions on 3.5s....

mids/component sets/subs/etc...thats another discussion entirely

bottom line:

I would hate to see people run out and buy 75 dollar 3.5s...add 10 dollar bass blockers and think its going to make a huge difference...lol
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  #58  
Old 03-01-2011, 03:22 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

Ok let's try this again, i am also not bashing but stating why i don't agree with you.

"bass blockers on a 3.5" dash speaker running off of a head unit or factory amp is overkill IMHO.......99.9% of aftermarket 3.5" speakers ALREADY have caps running to the tweeter to cut off unwanted bass notes...."

You're not listening. Yes they have crossovers only on the tweeters but not the 3.5's. would you want 20hz going to a pair of 3.5's No they will blow because they can handle it. that is the reason you block them off. I think you are thinking that with a blocker you will lose all signals to the 3.5 but there are many different crossover points you can use for blockers.

"when these people you say are contacting you of "blown" dash speakers......are you confirming its the woofer or the tweeter?"

there is no tweeter. it's the factory 3.5" dash speakers. they are just full range.

"if people are blowing the woofer off 15 or so watts, I still stand by the fact that they may have the polarity reversed or may have their settings adjusted wrong giving too much distortion at high volumes"

it's the stock deck. there is no reversed polarity. they blow because there is subwoofer type frequencies going to a 3.5" speaker.

"cmon, let's be honest here.....the majority of people on these non-audio forums can throw in some 30 to 40 dollar 3.5s AS IS (polk, BA, Kenwood, JL, etc etc) that will rival your ~100 dollar 3.5s "

never said I had the greatest 3.5". but I like them. and that's all that counts.

"Im also talking about standard 10-50 watt 3.5s here.......not someone wanting to run high power demanding 3.5s in a competition system rated at 200 watts (like a set of 400 dollar Critical Mass 3.5s!)"

I never said anything about a high powered system. I said off the stock deck.

"all in all, I say spend the 50+ dollars elsewhere in the system."

I have to say the biggest improvement you can make to these factory system's, Keeping them stock, without pulling the deck and adding amps (which is what the people who have asked for help want to do) is to replace the 3.5". by changing the factory 3.5's you will have a dedicated tweeter and midrange and that's where you will notice the greatest difference in sound, over a dual cone full range stock 3.5" speaker.

"3.5s can only do SO much with sub 30 watts bro"

most aftermarket 3.5" speakers can only handle 35 watts.

"the only true benefit of your Kappas is they are rated at 2 Ohms to make the best of the factory amp sysytems in todays vehicles....."

mine are 4 ohm, and I don't have a factory amp. the non BA system receives its power off the head unit. and the 3.5" and 6x9" are on the same channel. which is why the 3.5 receives the same signals the 6x9 does. also the reason I went with the discontinued kappa's is because they are 4 ohm and with the 3.5 and 6x9 wired together it will yield a 2 ohm load for my amp that I will install when I get home.

"Also, lets not forget that ALOT of these Jeep people you are giving advice to also have a UConnect/Bluetooth system in their vehicles that run ENTIRELY off of the 3.5" dash speakers......when you start capping the frequencies to the dash, the output suffers dramatically.......I dont know about you, but the people I talk to have bass in their voice and arent always high pitch screaming like the lead singer of AC/DC "

The output will not suffer, because you are not capping off vocal frequencies. once again you are only crossing out the lower frequencies that the 3.5 cant reproduce and was never meant to produce anyway.

"but once again, this is all simply my opinions on 3.5s....

mids/component sets/subs/etc...thats another discussion entirely

bottom line:

I would hate to see people run out and buy 75 dollar 3.5s...add 10 dollar bass blockers and think its going to make a huge difference...lol[/QUOTE]"

like I said earlier, a good aftermarket 3.5 with a dedicated tweeter will make a huge difference over the crappy stock dual cone full range speaker.
there is just no comparison.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:36 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

meh

Im not even going to try and counter all the inconsistencies, all of my ideas taken out of context and all the misinterpretations youve made to my post

you obviously werent listening either.......I know there are no blockers going to the 3.5s......Im saying RUNNING 3.5s OFF A STOCK DECK, KEY WORD HERE IS STOCK DECK, THERE IS NO NEED FOR BLOCKERS

Im done with this banter

all I can say is go ahead and try using a Uconnect with frequencies/bass blockers/ caps or whatever you want to call it and let me know how it works out for you......I never said it was ALL cut off.......its just all the low tones are and in order to hear anyone, you will have to crank the vol to 30! and any vol over 22 gives TONS of static............ask me how I know!

I do agree with you that the best mild upgrade you can do is install some 3.5s...........but like I said......99% here will be MORE than happy with 20-30 dollar 3.5s without bass blockers
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:30 PM
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Re: Butch's 2010 install

ok then. this is over. seriously man no hard feelings. we are just two audio guys who dont see things the same way.
i just feel strongly about this because i have heard my own 3.5's popping and jumping around like they were crazy with only moderate volume to them, and i dont want to see anyones new speakers blow because of this. but please dont take this the wrong way.
We are cool in my book.

Now i just want to go home and finish my install!!!!! I have a Butler audio 475 tube amplifier ready for my mids and highs. and a MMATS DHC1400.05 ready for my WMD 12's everything is just waiting and its killing me to not be able to install it
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